So I am in need of some help. Let me lay a little groundwork. I was raised Mormon, Eagle Scout, seminary graduate, mission. I went to BYU-I after my mission and started getting physical with girlfriends and stuff so I decided to confess. I moved home and was disfellowshipped. I was fine with all that. But then I stayed disfellowshipped for 3 years waiting for them to let me back in. I went to church and met with the bishop weekly, went to Sex Addiction therapy, the whole nine yards but they just weren't doing anything to get me back. I met my now fiancé and we were intimate a couple of times so we confessed because I wanted to be honest. They told me it would be at least another year. Well we got pregnant and decided instead of just getting a quick cover up wedding we wanted to do it right and get married in the temple. But then they just were not having it. There was always a reason that it wouldn't work. We stayed abstinent for a year so that we could get married in the temple and they said no because we lived together. We wanted to save money and prepare for our baby so we moved in together. We are still abstinent and have a wonderful, beautiful baby boy. We are becoming more and more disillusioned with the church telling us that we have to wait or meet some arbitrary requirement because we sinned a year ago.

I'm afraid to leave the church. It's been my whole life and it's meant so much to me but I'm having a harder and harder time convincing myself it's true. I can't help but feel that God's ordained bishops and stake presidents wouldn't just let a new family that was trying to do the right thing dangle and be shamed the way we are. I feel like we are getting punished for being honest. As if the only way to succeed in the church is to lie. I just need some advice from people and hear from people who know what I'm going through. Thank you

WOW, you made some really bad choices. OH, I am not talking about your decision to become sexually active, but your choice to get involved with a female who could not better manage her birth control regimen, along with your poor decisions to rush in and tell your MORmON leaders the truth about such matters which is a signal to them that you liked to be kicked around and treated like dirt, so they oblige you. ........ You might ask yourself: WHAT is it that you are really trying to get back into church wise ? At this point,-having a child out of wed lock, you will ALWAYS be a second class citizen in MORmONISM at best. YOU WILL ALWAYS BE A SECOND CLASS CITIZEN IN MORmONISM AT BEST. as long as you have a priesthood leader in THE MORmON church as it is presently constituted, they will be able to crack open your personal membership file and read they dirty recorded details about your discipline and how substandard because of what has happened.

I think of my (world class fucking @$$ hole) MORmON enforcement agent male parent who was a convert with his unlimited enthusiasm for MORmONISM, I always end up asking the same question: what the Hell was the point, STUPID ASS ???? He did EVERYTHING strictly by the MORmON rules to try to get their MORmON approval and HE NEVER DID !!!!! HERE IS THE BIG LESSON: He never could make the stupid ass MORmONS happy!!!! I think of his insistence on dragging our asses to MORmON meetings week after week after, AS IF it was going to impress someone, and what it really accomplished -NOTHING!!!! I can name names of all of the MORmON families back in my home ward, and the question that I would love to ask my MORmON male parent while trundling through all of those names is: WHO the Hell did you really think that you were going to impress? and WHY the Hell would it matter, given what fucking stupid self centered MORmON losers that all of those people really were !!!!! The MORmON church is really a social club that appeals to people (losers) who desperately need associations, relationships and personal affirmations just for the sake of having them far beyond anything of real substance. IN reality, The MORmON members that my male parent considered to be his good MORmON restored Gospel friends were not worth having as associates (!!!!!!!!)
My (THEIR mission for me) MORmON mission was really hard on me.
I lost my health due to illness so trying to hold a job was very stressful for me. I had a certain personal hobby that was seasonal that I absolutely loved and looked forward to in ways that I can not explain. It was very therapeutic for me. I would yearn for that time of year to come. When that time of year finally came, I would yearn for the week ends when I could indulge myself in my favorite activity. Saturdays engaging in my favorite activity were wonderful, WONDERFUL. My parents expected me to attend church on Sunday so I did for a few weeks until I just could not stand the misery any more. Those sundays were days when I did not have to endure the misery of work and I finally realized that it was just pure idiocy to fill such opportune recreational time with the misery of attending INSANELY STUPID BORING MORmON meetings to maintain the approval of my stupid ass MORmON parents. There certainly was NOT any one at those agonizing pointless stupid church meetings that was worth impressing INCLUDING MY DUMB ASS MORmON PARENTS !!!!!!
......It made me realize: WHY THE HELL ARE WE GOING TO THOSE STUPID MEETINGS? TO PLEASE SOME STUPID MORmON ASSHOLES THAT SHOULD OTHERWISE HAVE THEIR ASSES KICKED IN ???? TO HEAR MORE OF THE SAME OLD STORIES ABOUT SOME JESUS WHO CAN NOT BOTHER TO SHOW UP FOR HIS JOB (SPEAKING OF STRUGGLING TO MAINTAIN BEING EMPLOYED) FOR SOME 2000 YEARS ???? FOR THE SAKE OF STUPID SECRET MORmON HANDSHAKES THAT CAN NOT EVEN BE MENTIONED ??? NONE OF THOSE EXCUSES ARE GOOD ENOUGH TO BE REAL REASONS!!!!


What is it that you really feel that continuing to associate with MORmONS is really going to give you??? Do you see it as some kind of career path? For some people it is, but probably not for most. So WHAT is it that you feel that the approval that you are never really going to get (just as you are seeing right now) from those MORmON people is really going to do for you ???

Here is another part of the deal, the MORmON church tells you that The MORmON gospel and the MORmON church is absolutely indispensable to your life, your personal happiness and your spiritual well being -whatever the Hell that really is !!! And a person raised in MORmONISM tends to believe that CRAP because it was pumped into their head at a tender age through out their very impressionable years. In Reality, a person can get along just fine WITH OUT any MORmONISM at all in their life. Sure, the church tells people that MORmONISM makes people happy, but how much happiness is MORmONISM adding to your life right now ????

Fact is that a person can get along just fine with out the approval of the local ward members, with out paying 10 percent of their gross income right off the top, with out attending stupid ass MORmON meetings, and with out regular doses of stupid secret MORmON handshakes. They just have to come to the point where they can allow themselves that kind of freedom.

Without it, what would you do? Think about that and see that it's so much better than letting mormons run your life. They're toxic to your happiness. Whatever feelings are making it hard to believe them are your better self. Explore that side of things and you'll find freedom and a better life.


Don't get married in the temple. Don't try to please mormons. They're not on your side. You're a good person and need to do your own thinking.

Disillusioned Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------

> I'm afraid to leave the church.
JUST AS THE CHURCH PLANNED !!!!

> It's been my whole
> life and it's meant so much to me but I'm having a
> harder and harder time convincing myself it's
> true.

That is sad, but once again you need to realize that (your) condition it is completely according to the MORmON plan. MORmONISM is intended to be the entire totality of every member's life to the EXCLUSION OF ALL ELSE !!!!!
I do not know what happened in the MORmON priestDUD meetings that you went to, but I can say that, in honest reflection, ALL of the MORmON meetings that I went to absolutely sucked !!! They were a lot hulla ballou over nothing ( STUPID secret handshakes that could not be mentioned)


IN fact the worst NBA and NFL games that I watched on TV were still better than the best MORmON meeting that I ever went to.
I have to admit to myself that I was there simply to gain the approval of my dumb ass MORmON parents. Then, eventually I realized that my MORmON parents are STUPID and BORING because the only thing they know about is MORmONISM, and MORmONISM IS STUPID AND BORING !!!!


> I can't help but feel that God's ordained
> bishops and stake presidents wouldn't just let a
> new family that was trying to do the right thing
> dangle and be shamed the way we are. I feel like
> we are getting punished for being honest.

Hey, (in case you have not noticed) MORmONISM is a (passive aggressive pathological) competition!!! as well as being a social club purely based on utter BULL SHIT. and those MORmON leaders need somebody to always be better than and to exercise their mighty priestDUD authority on, and you volunteered to be that whipping boy person by making sure they were completely filled in on the details of your substandard personal moral plight.

> As if
> the only way to succeed in the church is to lie. I
> just need some advice from people and hear from
> people who know what I'm going through. Thank you

Would you like to hear from my friend who was made bishop ? the one who felt entitled to be bishop because he had been an AP on his mission. The one who did much better than you morally, not because he abstained from premarital sex because he had lots and lots of premarital sex, but because he managed to always pick out female sex partners who managed their birth control very well so he never got snagged by any out of wedlock pregnancy so he could go on a mission to become an AP and then to become a prominent bishop and legendary priestDUD leader in his own mind. He knows that he beat the odds of never getting a girl pregnant as much as he was having sex, which he sees as favor from god that so completely entitles him to belittle and subjugate some one as lowly and inferior as you are. That done in the name of MORmON god and in the interest of maintaining lofty MORmON standards of morality and MORmON superiority ......just like MORmON founder PERVERT Joseph Smith. ...Oh, the youngest girl of record that Joe Smith nailed was age 14, my friend out did Joe Smith as my friend nailed a 13 year old, but no pregnancy = no foul so he is doing much better morally and church wise than you and he is entitled to be a MORmON priestDUD leader to lord over lesser inferior members like you. Just remember, As some one who has the black mark of having a baby out of wedlock on your church membership record, you will NEVER make elders Quorum Pres let alone Bishop !!!

Disillusioned,

If Mormonism is true, you've NEVER making it into the Celestial Kingdom, so why try?

If Mormonism is false, there is no Celestial Kingdom, and you're giving money to a corporation that only benefits its leaders and their extended families.

Think about it.

oh he MIGHT make it into the celestial kingdom, so he can be a third or fourth class citizen there. if he does make it, then he can count on the fact that the good member MORmONS will NEVER forget that he had a baby out of wed lock back in mortality which is far worse than out of THE covenant, and they will constantly be reminding each other of that fact with whispers behind his back .....for all of eternity.

My recommendation would be to plan a very nice non-temple wedding. Leave the bishop out of the loop. You can find a justice of the peace, a minister, or a wedding officiant who would be happy to perform the ceremony for you. Do a web search for wedding venues in your area. Those venues can probably suggest an officiant as well. You would have a *much* nicer, more personalized wedding than the temple could ever give you. Everyone could attend, even your child. Your bride could dress as she pleases.

The Mormon church does not own the concept of weddings, happy families, or even "forever families" (virtually all Christians believe that they will be reunited with their loved ones in the afterlife.)

Stop letting the Mormon church authorities determine the direction of your life. You are an adult, someone's partner, and a parent. Stand up for yourself and your family. Your family is more important than what some untrained church "authorities" have to say.

My Catholic-raised cousin got a divorce, and the Catholic church refused to marry her a second time without an annulment. They were giving her the runaround as well. So she remarried in the Lutheran church.

Stop playing their game! They are not your friends. Take back control of your life.

This might come as a surprise to you, but no one else is living your life. You are the captain of your ship, in other words, the boss. The sooner you come to that conclusion and live accordingly, the happier you'll be. Life is WAAAAY too short to hand the reins over to someone else.

Hi Disillusioned,

I have no idea if there is a God or not. About the only thing I'm sure of now...is that age causes wisdom, obesity and the desire to stop shopping.

It was very hard to be young, but only for about thirty-five years. Fifty, tops. I am finally able to act like I don't crave girls. I have many fans, and two of them still work.

My point is this: Feeling like a fish out of water is normal. Movies, music and art is proof that everybody seeks escape. There is no escape, outside of Ford.

I suggest you find your bliss either through alcoholism or fitness. These seem to work very well for almost everyone, until old age kicks in.

If life ever really bullies you badly, try ice cream, crying, porn, eBay debt, writing a book on success or being homeless.

The happiest people I know are actors. Unpaid, but full time.

Here is a tale of woe from just one fish out of water. Hope it helps. Nothing else will, if you're like me.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PrHPN8rwvqU

There doesn't have to be a God for life to be a divine miracle. As you can see in your baby's eyes, there's something real there.

What's real in church? All those people are pretending, just like you. They're not your friends because everything is conditional in the church. As many here can attest, when such a relationship is put to the test it always gets ugly. It's as if your disempowerment is the church's strength. Which it is, because they are using you. It's a real estate empire that dodges taxes by teaching doctrine they know can't be true. Seriously, they have all the dirt. The Book of Abraham has been known to be a fraud (and there's no wiggle room) for 50 years.

You have a child. You must protect your child from the stunted emotional growth, neurotic behavior patterns and suppressed empathy that are the fruits of Mormonism.

Finally, don't worry about leaving the church. Everyone who goes through recovery comes out better on the other side. You will feel free and happy. It just won't be easy.

Look.

You're a grownup now. It's time to take charge of your life instead of running to the church.

They don't know one iota more about God than you or me. Their gig is maintaining power and order in their organization.

Keep reading about church history. Quit being their victim. They thrive on instilling guilt, shame and power.

Make it right with your partner and soon to be child and get them away from all that self imposed judging.

They have convinced you that they are enforcing what "God" wants everyone to be doing. Posh.

PS. You'll be disappointed in the temple. It's even a bigger eye-opener that they want to tell you everything God wants you to be doing, right down to secret club handshakes.

I wish you well. Look higher. The church is not meeting YOUR standards, not the other way around.

Well there you go. Congratulations, that is worth more than any of the rest of it. I'll bet that if you make him feel loved and curious you won't ever regret any of the rest. :)

You've been in Mormonism's clutches for lots of years and they are VERY GOOD at indoctrination. When you got home from your mission you were only doing what any normal healthy sex-starved young man should be doing. They guilted and shamed you for something that is natural and healthy.

Take your time with life now enjoying your partner and baby. Look for truth in life and seek it out in your dealings with the church of your upbringing. My search lead me to know that Joseph Smith was a lying conman and that Mormonism is a fraud to make those who lead it rich, important, idolized and powerful.

Hope to hear more from you, and wish you the best.

You are viewing yourself as a condemned sinner. However, God (or the Universe or whatever) has a very different opinion and has blessed you immeasurably. You have a partner you love and who loves you and together you have created a beautiful baby boy.

It is hard to imagine how you could be more blessed. Many people would give anything to have a devoted partner or a beautiful son. You have both!

Be grateful for your blessings! Obviously, God or the Universe loves you. Follow Summer's advice. Plan a small personal non-Mormon wedding in a venue you love. Do it your way -- your choice on what is said, what you wear, what music is played, what food is served. Use the ceremony to celebrate the three of you -- and the commitment to being a family and loving and supporting that new life you have created.

It is hard for me to believe that the church authorities you're dealing with are so intransigent. Most church leaders have learned that continuing to punish young couples only drives them away -- just as is happening to you. Do not spend another minute regretting your choices, trying to sufficiently repent, etc. Instead, be grateful for your wonderful blessings and celebrate your good fortune!

Create your family and life on your terms. Ironically, if you marry and move on, you'll soon find plenty of Mormons trying to reactivate you, get you to attend church, take a calling, get sealed in the temple. By then, I don't think you'll want any of it!

Ignore everything people are telling you or saying. Instead, make choices that promote the happiness and well-being of yourself, your partner and your child. Relish life and your blessings. Life is way too short to do anything else.

I'm surprised they didn't talk you into giving your child away to someone else that they view as more righteous.

IMO, you, the baby, and mama need to get the hell away from the mormon church before they completely destroy you and your family. They're using mormonism against you like a whip. Do you really think Christ or God would act like the mormon men who are bullying you? I think not.

I went through a similar situation. Not quite as extreme as yours, but the whole little game of making up rules and conditions that deprived my husband and I of our Eternal Salvation while those guys played with our lives like a cat plays with a mouse.

After another meeting with the stake president I came home very discouraged, and got online. I didn't know what to look for, but I desperately needed to find someone out there who understood what was going on. I typed in'Why do Mormons Leave?' Up popped a podcast on Mormon Stories. It was John Dehlin talking about why mormons leave the church. I was shocked at what he was saying. People weren't leaving for the reasons the church claims they do. It may bring you some comfort and guidance to listen to that podcast.

After that I went to MormonThink.com and read the entire website. That's a lot of reading :). I started with the Book of Abraham, and the issues the church has with those particular scriptures. I learned a lot of things I didn't know, an i'd been a mormon for 50 years.

Please do some studying. There are tons of things that are church supported that you can read to find answers to your situation. The church put out some essays awhile back. I think the site is LDS.Org.

I will say that I think you've come to the right place. There are a lot of people here who will do what they can to help you. Sometimes there are some that are angry sounding, but it's because they're working through some stuff. Over all, the people here are pretty great people.

It takes a man to do what you did and I commend you for that. Right now, you're continually gaining acceptance from a church that has treated you and your family any less than what the Lord would. My advice is for you to be more spiritual and less religious (there is a big difference between the two and if you need further clarification, just ask). You need a personal relationship with Jesus, not a system of regulations and a hierarchy to rule over every aspect of your life. The next time you want to come clean about anything, come to Jesus over your bishop of anyone in the LDS church for that matter.

Here I go again: Take your power back and own it. The church does not own you or your baby or your fiance.
Let it go.

There is a whole world out there that doesn't give a hoot about how you live your life.

My advice; Get married. Give that baby your wife your commitment. Not a church.

You set your standards for your life with your wife, for your child.

You'll be fine. Let go of the chains that bind you.

"I feel like we are getting punished for being honest."

Yes. That is exactly what is happening.


"As if the only way to succeed in the church is to lie."

Congratulations. You've hit it precisely. The Mormon church, by its very nature, breeds a culture of liars. The pursuit of an unattainable perfection, combined with the harsh judgmentalism of Mormonism, creates a culture where image is everything. The church is one giant Potemkin village, a motion picture studio backlot, that looks fine from the outside, but with nothing substantive behind the false façade.

NEVER CONFESS ANYTHING. Force them to use their "powers of discernment" (hint: there is no such thing).


I'm going to reveal an ugly truth here: The church is trying to break you. Like an abusive parent, it toys with you and jerks you around, intent on making you squirm and grovel and abase yourself, withholding its approval until you're desperate enough to do *anything* to regain its favor. Eventually, it will hold its nose and grudgingly let you back in, reminding you how magnanimous and merciful it is for bestowing this great blessing, upon which you are expected to be so eternally grateful that you won't ever think of disobeying again. At that point, you'll be "church broke." This is what cults do to people – use fear, guilt and shame to enforce compliance and impose its will. And make no mistake, you're in a cult.

In your case, the cult's strength comes from your desire for a temple recommend. As long as a TR is your goal, the church has all the power. Overcoming this desire (which the church has driven into you for the sole purpose of maintaining control) will allow you to take back the power that you have ceded to the cult. When you can say "Screw the temple recommend, I don't want it," the church will lose its authority over you along with its ability to dictate your life.

I recommend you get a civil wedding, even if it's only by a JP at the courthouse. Had you done that a year ago, you'd be temple-eligible by now, and would have more leverage with the asshole bishop.

At minimum, you have to be able to call the bishop out on his assholery. Tell him that you've played by his rules long enough, and if he doesn't issue the TR, you'll have your civil wedding. He will, of course, play the fear and shame card, but since he does that anyway, what do you have to lose? However, it's critical that you mean it. You must have the courage to follow through; if you can't back it up, I'm afraid that you're going to end up as just another bland Mormon milquetoast, an emasculated husk of what could have been a man.

Many years ago in Brigham's lovely Deseret, a bishop named Warren Snow caused a younger man to be castrated in fact. Don't let his successors do the same to you in spirit.

Lives of happiness are impossible without church bureaucracies.

Lives of freedom are impossible without layers of government.

We each must do all we can to preserve the status quo.

There are growing numbers of people who actually believe that the props of our forebears are no longer essential to modern, intelligent lifestyles.

Without religion, we cannot commune with God. Without thousands of new city, county, state and Federal rules every year, we cannot be free.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RUjwmC7byCM

You may be wondering why the church leaders would want to break you.

There's one reason. That reason is money. As long as you're church broke, you'll pay into the corporation. If you do a tiny bit of research, you'll find out that it is a corporation disguised as a church. It has been that way for a very long time.

They desperately want YOU and YOURS to pay into the corporation until the day you die. If they can get what's left after you die, they'll try to get that too. They have senior missionaries that do nothing except go around to other seniors and try to get them to sign their estates over. There's proof of that.

Also, if you want to see what a temple wedding is like, that's also been taped and put on line . Google will tell you far more then the mormon church ever will or did. It's really quite shocking.