Been thinking about another thing that has happened that I don't understand.

Less than a year after marrying my TDM, I ended up taking care of his mid-80's mother, who had broken some ribs and also had dementia, 24/7 by myself for 3 months, while DH continued working in another location.

When I have tried to talk about how difficult this was for me, especially emotionally, I have been told by DH that "you do what you have to do; it wasn't hard; the reason you think it was hard is because of your evangelical Christian way of (wrong) thinking."

Wow. So what I am wondering is: is this a Mormon point of view, that you do what you have to do, and admitting it is hard is somehow wrong, so you don't?

I do not understand, and I still feel hurt that we can't even talk about how hard it was, and that my doing it was a big deal.

And he wasn't there doing all the work?

Nice.

I was lucky that we have a big family, and we could trade off looking after both my mom and dad--sometimes it was hard as hell, but looking back on I wouldn't have traded it for anything, because they took care of me all my formative years. I will say, however, that we were looking after our own parents, not in-laws.

Wow - you have an idiot for a husband.

I've been helping my wife for the last 3 years taking care of her parents. And it is NOT easy - both physically and emotionally.

Thanks.

DH's argument was that they took care of him during his formative years (therefore doing it was not a choice, but a given.)

OK. I don't see how that makes doing it "not hard."

I helped take care of my own Dad when he had dementia and needed much help and was no longer the Dad I'd known and loved. It was the most desperately hard thing I ever did, emotionally.

Taking care of DH's Mom was easier, because she was a sweetie, and even with dementia, still had a great sense of humor. But it was 24/7, literally---intense, tiring, and lonely. It was hard.

So in Mormonism, if you are doing something willingly because it needs to be done, or because someone you love needs help, or because it's a church calling----are you supposed to not talk about the fact that it's hard, or any of the downside?

Is that a Mormon thing, or just a personal thing for my particular DH?

Thanks.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 06/24/2017 06:19PM by relievedtolearn.

I have never been a mormon - so I cannot provide an answer for you. It might be a mo thing though as when I was doing my best to care for my own parents my TBM sister (converted) would not listen to anything I had to say about the situation.

Mom ultimately died from a broken heart (she and my dad were not allowed to attend sister's wedding in the temple) and dad just recently died from old age.

It is something I did for them, I am doing for my in laws, and it is not easy. I'd like to say it's get better when the parent's pass on, but that has it's own set of emotions too.

I also admire your courage in reaching out.......

Thank you. Reaching out helps a lot when you have people who answer.

LOL. Thank you, Janis---I like the sound of that!!

No, it's not a Mormon point of view. Your husband is being an asshole.

On further ponderization, there is a certain amount of "don't complain!" in mormonism--certainly there is in other religions, in families ("Why, when *I* was a kid...")...anywhere...but mormons are always putting up examples like the stalwart Handcart Pioneers or the stalwart kicked-out-of everywhere-for-no-good-reason pioneers, as stalwart sufferers who always have that "enduring to the end, for the lord" look on their face.

The only person who gets to complain is Joseph Smith in the those visitor center movies, when he's full of righteous indignation.

"Why should we mourn or think our lot is hard?
'Tis not so; all is right.
Why should we think to earn a great reward
If we now shun the fight?"

(verse 2, "Come, Come Ye Saints")

In mormonism, you're not supposed to complain (known as "murmuring") no matter what. It's part of "enduring to the end" and is designed to produce submissive, obedient followers. Voicing any complaint demonstrates a lack of faith in god and/or priesthood leaders.

IMO, your husband was simply being a jackass and using mormonism as a convenient excuse for it.

Thank you all for the emotional support; makes me feel better.

The song quoted above actually does sound like the attitude I've been hearing, and I have to say that DH demands more of himself, and allows himself less slack, than anyone else I've ever known, so he wasn't laying a trip on me that he doesn't do to himself.

But it's been crazy-making to have what I thought was extremely hard and sad treated like I was lazy and selfish---and I still question that almost every day.

I suppose like anyone else is a mix about things, that would be partly true---but still, what we did with not much help or support was strenuous, and demanding, and emotionally very draining for me, and to be told it wasn't, and the reason I think so is that I'm something else not Mormon religion-wise--yep, that has been a sorrowful thing to me.

So again, thank you for sharing your opinions and support.

He's just a self absorbed asshole. Who cares what church he was raised in?

He should be singing you praises and taking you on a romantic vacation to a fabulous place of your choice.

I can't answer your question, but (along with others on this thread,) I can assure you that elder care can be very difficult indeed, even when you love the parent in question and have long years of reciprocity. You did a very hard, demanding job, and you did it well.

We all need our efforts appreciated, but we don't always get it. A little appreciation from your husband would have gone a long way, I think.

IMHO it boils down to
1. Sit still
2. Shut up
3. Do what you are told to do!

And most of all DON'T moan and groan about it!

It's called the "not as bad" fallacy. Other people have it harder, why should you complain about what you're dealing with?

It could be a little of column A and B- My TBM mom was very anti negative anything- anything that was "bad" in life you just had to pray about it and have faith it would get better. Don't complain, just pray and it will all be fine.

I think it's pretty shitty that your husband expects you to just suck it up, especially since it was his mother that needed care and had you provide it. He sounds like an ungrateful, entitled, insenstive ass.

I don't want to defend your husband, because he sounds like he was a jerk about this.

Maybe there are other layers behind what he said. Maybe he feels he has to buck up and go to work every day and convince himself it's not so bad. Maybe he sees staying home with is creepy mother not so bad by comparison.

Maybe he has picked up comments from you disparaging Mormons, while he is supposed to refrain from saying anything bad about your variety of religiousness. Maybe he felt the religious wedge was the reason you were complaining. Because, after all, we hear Christians talking about caring for the sick as if they really intended to do it. (Just saying. Look at what you wrote.)

What I would need to know is more about these questions: Did you have to give up your job to care for his mother? Would he have to give up his job to care for your mother while you went to a hard-core job every day?

My husband helped take care of my mother who was NOT nice to him. I had to take time off from my job to care for parents which took me years to get back in my career track later. Taking care of elderly parents is not easy. It's not a religion thing, IMO.

Dagny, I think you are asking some very good questions.

I believe the song quoted above has been that standard of my husband's life.

For me, not to even acknowledge that something is hard when it is makes it worse. Not being able to talk about it, offer sympathy, admit that it is hard.

One of the reasons I have been so enjoying this rfm board is that people here talk straight up about stuff. I am sure I've made disparaging comments--although I've tried very hard not to. He has too.

I think there are all kinds of things at play. Earning the living is something my DH considers the job of the husband/dad in the family, and he has always been extremely responsible about that. After his sister and her husband started coming down and taking every other month caring for their parents, (we acutally ended up doing the 24/7 care for over 3 years together; I was the one available initially, the one who did it alone the first 3 months or so. All of it was hard. I really thought for a while I would die before they did.)

To be fair, there is a learning curve in any new experience, and every one of us involved in caring for his parents had a lot to learn about us needing to care for ourselves, taking time for respite, finding a way to have some private life and some social life around the edges. To me, having what the parents wanted met as fully as possible at the cost of 4 other people having almost no personal life at all, for years, was not a healthy balance. I understand wanting to have them be as comfortable and secure as possible---but we sure paid a high price. I think we needed to find a little better balance, get more help so we had more time for ourselves. I was no doubt hardest hit, because I was new to the family; I had left behind my home, kids, and friends to be married, then was alone a lot because of the crisis with the parents occurring soon after.

My Dad was also slowly dying with dementia and a broken heart 3 states away, and during our "respite" months, my husband was driving me up to see him in the assisted living place--thankfully a good one--- where my Dad was living out his last days. My husband was able to make my Dad (and his Mom) laugh, when I couldn't.

So my question was really asking, is it a Mormon thing to do what is expected, or what needs to be done without ever "complaining" or talking about how hard it is? The song quoted above is exactly the attitude I have encourntered.

I see it as a typical response in a dysfunctional family system (maybe especially in a patriarchal system) for the FEELINGS of someone to be dismissed as invalid. And that hurts like heck.

DH dismisses his own feelings too, and acts like having a preference or to want something for himself is deep dark forbidden sin.

Maybe it actually is a reflection of a theological difference between us that he feels that way, and I don't.

I believe we are created with personality, desires, things we love doing, kinds of places we love being---and that God is pleased for us to get to have and do those things. At the same time, I do also believe we are quite able and there are times when we should sacrifice those desires for a greater good--including service, helping people, making community work, etc.

It's not an either/or. Not my way or the highway---just, a balance. Your needs are not all-important while mine are nothing----Both our needs are important, so is there a way to make it work so some of both our needs can be met, or take turns, or something.

And be real about what your needs are, be able to share that openly, then cooperate to see what we can make work together so everybody's needs are at least partly met.

We couldn't even talk about it, and still can't. That frustrates me.

And I didn't appreciate being told that the reason I thought it was hard was because of my religious beliefs. Sheesh. Is what you see me believing is that I'm entitled to have everything just the way I want or something is wrong?

If that's really how I think, then God help me.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 06/25/2017 04:59PM by relievedtolearn.

Thanks for the insight. Better understand.

At some point in my life I realized that others did not "know" what is "hard" for me. Nor do I know what is "hard" for anybody else. That was a lesson I learned from my experiences.

We had a special needs child. Our son was a logistical challenge for any family activity. Other ward members didn't really appreciate what we were dealing with - but knew that they didn't want our family challenges themselves.

One loud mouth in priesthood said that we should all volunteer to mind each other's children on alternating weekends to attend the temple. I challenged him to take my son home that afternoon. He was shut right down because he knew that his wife couldn't even stand to sit on the same side of the chapel as our family because our son was "too irreverent."

A bishop assumed that I could "just do" whatever he thought a priesthood holder should do. Not so fast, buddy. I eventually refused to attend General Conference or Stake Conference because Mormonism assumes faithfulness satisfies a predetermined "formula." And our family didn't fit any "formula."