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Posted by: donbagley ( )
Date: June 01, 2019 06:12PM

It's been about a week since my father died. My brother, Jeff, attended the funeral, and everyone was nice to his face. But after he left, the two youngest sisters began to work on Mom, and she sent an email telling my brother's wife that her sons are evil.

The two youngest sisters received a half million dollars each from Dad, who never gave me a buck and ripped off my brother on a house purchasing deal. There's a little over a million left in property, and they'll get it all.

On the surface, this looks pretty shitty, but it's even worse than it looks. They have to make me look bad to justify the evil thing they did to me. And today:

It got back to me that my mother is calling me a sociopath. You know why? I complained about being cut out of the family. She won't talk to my face, so I'll just ask some questions in public.

Was I a sociopath when I supported my wife and son, putting my son through college?

Was I a sociopath when I joined the service after my father threw me out?

Was I a sociopath in high school when he gave me no lunch money and I stole my lunches?

Was I a sociopath when he beat me right up until I could swing back?

And lastly, and I hope they all see this, was I a sociopath when I was five years old and my father masturbated me in the bathtub?

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Posted by: Gordon B. Stinky ( )
Date: June 01, 2019 06:19PM

You're describing classic gaslighting. Blaming one's own victims is sociopathy. They are the sociopaths, not you.

Sadly, this is an oft repeated dynamic, where the family members who benefit from the long-term misdeeds continue the lies. They have to blame the victim in order to not look/feel bad for essentially getting the victim's share of the family resources, then and now.

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Posted by: mel ( )
Date: June 01, 2019 06:35PM

Gordon B. Stinky Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> They have to blame the victim in order to not look/feel bad...

You have nailed it, Gordon. Got it exact. Sad.

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Posted by: Jordan ( )
Date: June 01, 2019 06:22PM

Not much I can say about this apart from you are in the right.

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Posted by: Lot's Wife ( )
Date: June 01, 2019 06:26PM

Don,

They can say whatever they want. No sociopath, no narcissist, could ever write with the insight and compassion that characterizes your pieces. Anyone who has read you knows how absurd such accusations are.

I realize it is difficult to step away from toxicity when it comes from one's home and family, but I hope you can do that. Those people should not detain you a single moment.

LW

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Posted by: Lethbridge Reprobate ( )
Date: June 02, 2019 12:53AM

I can't improve upon what you've written LW. Nailed it.

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Posted by: Aquarius123 ( )
Date: June 01, 2019 06:35PM

I am sorry they are big enough asses to put anybody through this, Don. I'm glad you recognize how they are bull******** you and to what extent. Good riddance to a cruel and ruthless person. And, your mother and sisters are bad enough to not willingly share with you, they have to accuse you of being a sociopath. They just have to rub salt in the wounds. That's real Christian stuff. WWJD? Cheat, lie, and torment?

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Posted by: donbagley ( )
Date: June 01, 2019 06:37PM

They are temple worthy Mormons. Imagine that.

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Posted by: elderolddog ( )
Date: June 01, 2019 07:13PM

...and the temple is worthy of them!

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Posted by: mel ( )
Date: June 01, 2019 09:14PM

elderolddog Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> ...and the temple is worthy of them!

Ha!
Good one!!!!

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Posted by: Dave the Atheist ( )
Date: June 01, 2019 06:39PM

Don, my family is totally rotten too but I think yours may have mine beat by a slim margin.

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Posted by: donbagley ( )
Date: June 01, 2019 06:42PM

And it's a lot of money. I see now what it does to people.

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Posted by: mav ( )
Date: June 06, 2019 09:19PM


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Posted by: mel ( )
Date: June 01, 2019 06:47PM

Don,

I read an interesting book which is about the family dynamic of homes with a narcissistic parent. The author is a psychologist and tells of his father secretly leaving everything to the author’s brothers, after telling lies and bad-mouthing the author for decades. The book is called “the human magnet syndrome “ by Rosenberg.

You are not alone and not at fault.

I wish you the best.

PS my mother secretly left all my grandmother’s oil stock to my sister. I didn’t even know about it. Found out only by accident years later.

Hugs.

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Posted by: Aquarius123 ( )
Date: June 01, 2019 07:11PM

mel Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Don,
>
> I read an interesting book which is about the
> family dynamic of homes with a narcissistic
> parent. The author is a psychologist and tells of
> his father secretly leaving everything to the
> author’s brothers, after telling lies and
> bad-mouthing the author for decades. The book is
> called “the human magnet syndrome “ by
> Rosenberg.
>
> You are not alone and not at fault.
>
> I wish you the best.
>
> PS my mother secretly left all my grandmother’s
> oil stock to my sister. I didn’t even know about
> it. Found out only by accident years later.
>
> Hugs.

That happened to me! My mother secretly left everything to my brother. He knew it but of course did not mention it to me. I found out after her death. It really is a hefty betrayal. After the person makes your life a living hell, then screws you over, totally leaves you out of any inheritance to top it off!

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Posted by: mel ( )
Date: June 01, 2019 09:13PM

Aquarius123 Wrote:
>
> That happened to me! My mother secretly left everything to my brother....It really is a hefty betrayal.

Wow! We are all in the same sad club. How rotten it is, that parents who are supposed to be for their children are only “against” them. Thanks for sharing, Aquarius.

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Posted by: Elyse ( )
Date: June 02, 2019 12:33PM

Rosenberg's brothers could have given him half of what they got to make up for the father's meanness.
But apparently this did not occur to them.

Some families just suck.

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Posted by: caffiend ( )
Date: June 01, 2019 06:47PM

Nothing THAT ugly, but unpleasant. My atheist brother and Christian me were given enough to pay off our home mortgages, but an estate of several more million went to my sister, who not only stayed CS, but rose to a high level.

I've let go of it, because I was not really hurt. It was, after all, my parents decision and their money. All you can do is look after your own self, such as venting a little, protecting yourself from the cultic toxicity, and moving on. Try not to resent them, as that creates toxicity of its own.

May I suggest an analogy that might help: All over the world, people suffer pain and loss, be it personal disability, natural disasters, crime, war, etc. These things are horrible, they're not fair, and "why me--instead of that other guy?" Most people figure out what to do with their available resources, rebuild, and move on. It's not a "we'll laugh about this someday" situation at all, but at least you can put the damage in your rearview mirror, say "I'm glad that's behind me" and make the rest of your life happy and meaningful.

May peace and better fortunes be upon you, dear fellow.

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Posted by: nolongerangry ( )
Date: June 01, 2019 07:06PM

Sue them for your share.

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Posted by: elderolddog ( )
Date: June 01, 2019 07:19PM

Very hard to do if there's a Last Will & Testament, and a smidgen of evidence that his dad 'knew' what he was doing when he signed the most recent version.

Testators have done the most terrible things to their heirs and the courts allow it; after all, if the deceased could have done the actions before death, the courts allow the deceased wishes to be honored, unless contrary to the law, like leaving a million dollars to 'Karen' if she'll poison the Vicar's dogs...

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Posted by: ookami ( )
Date: June 01, 2019 07:08PM

You are not a sociopath, your "father" was a narcissist.

But one of the sad things about growing up in an abusive environment is that some find it easier to aid the abuser and eventually see the targets of abuse as deserving of it, like in your family. Your mother and his golden children are still continuing to aid his abuse even after the bastard is in the ground.

Just remember-- you turned out to be a good person despite him.

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Posted by: exminion ( )
Date: June 01, 2019 07:45PM

I have been struck by many parallels between your dysfunctional Mormon family and mine, Don.

I'm so sorry things turned out this way for you! You certainly are not responsible.

It is no surprise that the poison has infected your sisters and your mother. My oldest brother, his gold-digger wife, and his con-man son were faithful Mormon RM's, and bishopric members, and constant temple-goers. They criticized everyone else for not being religious enough. These family members stole all of my father's estate, and almost all of my mother's estate. When our second-oldest brother died, they tried to grab from his estate, too, but the rest of the family sued, and did recover 1/2 of what we should have had.

The suing process took years, and it was Hell. The worst part was having to deal with those horrible people--having to talk to them, listen to their garbage, and hate them so much that I would shake with anger. It was making me ill.

You must be relieved that your horrible relatives are no longer in your life! You don't have to listen to their fake religious garbage, or their lying accusations, anymore!

Of course they undermine you! They are fleecing you!

Behind my back, my brother tried to get my house, (because my father had once put some money into it), and become the "Trustee" for me. I found out, through my job, that my house was being appraised. My brother and his wife always bad-mouthed me to my parents, and told them not to help me out, when I got divorced. They said divorce was evil. They said I was a poor judge of character, because my husband had abandoned me and our children, and I might marry another flake. They said I was not responsible to manage on my own, so I needed y brother to be my "Trustee". I had a successful career, which I seemed to manage just fine!

The REAL sociopaths are the ones who try to take advantage and capitalize on the weaknesses of others. They honestly do not care what happens to anyone else. I would not let my crook brother take the roof over my children's heads, so I hired a well-respected attorney, proved that my ex and I had paid back my father, and we saved what was rightfully ours.

Why is it so hard to take those sucker-punches? Why does it still upset us so much, every time it happens?

Maybe it's because they get away with it. That's another thing your family and mine have in common. They get away with it. They never own up to it. They never stop. Often, it carries on through generations. Keep these people away from your children.

We can't expect any other type of behavior from them, than what these abusers have exhibited all their lives.

Good riddance. It's worth a lot to have them GONE.

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Posted by: Soft Machine ( )
Date: June 01, 2019 07:50PM

Nobody who has read your stories could call you a sociopath, Don. There are no heroes, not even among the characters who might seem to be based on you. That doesn't strike me as sociopathic.

And your sisters are hyenas...

In France, by law, everything first goes to the wife and then ion equal shares to the children - and you're not allowed to disinherit them!

It actually makes things much simpler.

So sorry you're having to put up with this.

Tom in Paris

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Posted by: donbagley ( )
Date: June 01, 2019 08:17PM

Thanks, Tom. I appreciate your comments, and I'm glad that you've read my work. You are correct, there are no heroes in my stories. Deception is nearly always present, in one form or another. I write from experience.

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Posted by: got2Breal ( )
Date: June 01, 2019 07:59PM

Rest assured, Dad will not be that rich in the next life!

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Posted by: Amyjo ( )
Date: June 01, 2019 08:14PM

I don't see what harm it would be to tell your mother what you've said to us, in writing. She may never open the envelope. But you can mail it to her address in the hope that she may read what you have shared about your father and what he did to you.

I'd put it all in there. All the hurt, and the sadness it has caused you all these years. Keep a copy for yourself, and seal it. Even if you never read it again, you will have told her exactly how you feel, and unmotherly her actions have been toward you.

No, it isn't normal. But nothing about your family is. You may not even send the letter to her. But writing it may be therapeutic for you. I've written letters to some family members I've intended to send then never actually sent them. But in case you do, you will have said exactly what you needed to say and when it needed to be said. And that is for you, not for her benefit.

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Posted by: cl2 ( )
Date: June 01, 2019 08:54PM

You can spend years and years keeping them at bay, but something like a death will bring so much back. And it isn't going to get better, not for a while at least.

He saved that million by not taking care of his children. He couldn't take it with him. I had an uncle who wanted to take it with him. He tried to get his wife declared incompetent thinking he could somehow prevent her from spending any money after he died. Death does really crazy things to people NO MATTER what their situation is. My family has been through a lot since my parents died.

I'm afraid there is more to come, Don. YOU ARE NOT THE SOCIOPATH. My sister calls the rest of us "the crazies in Utah." And it hurts even though I know it isn't true, but that she is the crazy one. And for all his kowtowing to the mormons, what did it get him? How high of a calling did he get? We all know he was aiming for higher. He was a VERY SICK man.

Do everything you can to keep from having to hear anymore.

By the way, your dad's picture looked SO MORMON. He didn't deserve you as a son. If there is an afterlife, I'm sure he has had a rude awakening.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 06/01/2019 08:55PM by cl2.

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Posted by: saucie ( )
Date: June 01, 2019 09:09PM

I'll just repeat to you what I wrote to you on Facebook, "There's

a sociopath in your family but it isn't you".

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Posted by: summer ( )
Date: June 01, 2019 10:27PM

Don, I'm so sorry. I know that you knew this was coming, but it still bites. Your dad's estate was your school lunch money. He literally took food out of your mouth. He was not a good provider. He was not a decent human being. I like to think that most men would be ashamed to act as he did.

At least it's done with. You have broken the chain and have raised your own children with love. Money comes and goes, but you cannot put a price on the love that you have built within your own little family.

I know that I've told this story before, but my brother gave up his share of my mother's estate so that I could buy my home. He was doing well in life and wanted to help provide for me. In return, my estate will one day go to his children and grandchildren. To me, that's how it should be. Family members should have each other's backs.

The change begins with you.

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Posted by: olderelder ( )
Date: June 01, 2019 11:22PM

One of the "smarter" things my father did was leave nothing to be inherited, only his last Social Security check.

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Posted by: nomonomo ( )
Date: June 02, 2019 03:34AM

I've shared some details over the years, and have some parallels in my own toxic family. My dad died a multimillionaire in 2013. He was a narcissist and probably a sociopath. I have to give him some credit though: he set aside a million dollars for my brothers and I from his first marriage. Sadly, his wife was able to cheat us out of most of it.

In this season of life, people really start to show their true colors, especially when money is involved.

When my wife was diagnosed with cancer in 2015, she asked me not to even tell my family. My half-sister had already proclaimed that my wife was "not part of the family". When she finally found out that my wife had cancer and was terminal, she emailed my wife to say that "you got what you deserve."

When my oldest brother found out my wife was sick, he tried to exploit the situation, trying to manipulate me in the ongoing lawsuit, and accused me of neglecting her (odd, considering that I'm retired and resigned my part time teaching job so that I could be her full time caregiver, and in her last 18 months hardly left her side).

When my wife died 18 months ago, no one even asked about her funeral. Not a single member of my "family" was there. And they didn't even go through the charade of making polite excuses. They didn't even bother to inquire.

My family's M.O. Is to run around hummin' and cluckin' about how they're "worried" about the people whom they've mistreated, believing that feigning concern and worry will mask over the reality of having treated those same people like $hit. The charade seems to work on their church friends, which apparently is all that matters.

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Posted by: donbagley ( )
Date: June 02, 2019 03:44AM

Yes, your points are insightful.

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Posted by: nomonomo ( )
Date: June 02, 2019 03:57AM

Sorry, I sort of got on my own soap box. What I meant to say is that I feel your pain. I have long estranged myself from my family, but it's hard to maintain the separation, and not feel the pain and heartbreak at times like this. I think in part because its so final. Death ends the dim hope that maybe, just maybe, somehow the wrongs will be made right, or acknowledged or "fixed" in some way. And the survivors double down on their side of the battle lines, and the lies, and the blaming. And even if they didn't, they can't apologize on behalf of the main perpetrator.

It goes without saying that you and your brother are so much better off without these people in your lives. But the memories and ensuing antics still suck and still cause pain at times like this.

I feel your pain, my friend.

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Posted by: mel ( )
Date: June 02, 2019 05:49PM

nomonomo Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Death ends the dim hope that maybe, just maybe, somehow the wrongs will be made right, or acknowledged or "fixed" in some way...

Well said. Nomo, I am sorry your family was so awful to you. :(

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Posted by: Lethbridge Reprobate ( )
Date: June 02, 2019 12:36PM

Wow...

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Posted by: Amyjo ( )
Date: June 05, 2019 07:53PM

Nomonomo,

Your family takes the cake for lowdown.

To say something so awful about your late wife suffering from cancer that she deserved that is so toxic, I don't know where to begin. Anyone that can say something that heathenous, is sub-human.

She is beyond sick. There is no cure for what ails her heart.

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Posted by: nomonomo ( )
Date: June 11, 2019 12:25PM

Thanks for the kind words everyone. I don't mean to hijack the thread, only to show that I can empathize with Don. I've posted about most of this stuff before.

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Posted by: mikemitchell ( )
Date: June 02, 2019 06:49AM

Don, sorry you are going through this. Damn!

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Posted by: Cheryl ( )
Date: June 02, 2019 12:45PM

She and the evil sisters she spawned can rot in hell.

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Posted by: irishrose ( )
Date: June 02, 2019 03:34PM

Don,

Reading your saga is painful. Horrible feeling at how badly you had been and continue to be treated. Compounded by the experiences of others on the board who have suffered similarly. In my own experience as satan's sister, I wasn't even allowed to make copies of family photographs of my childhood. That's right, she's so Christ-like in her temple worthy state that she gets to pass judgment and that judgment is that I don't get to have childhood photos to pass down through my family.

And I know money, power and death bring out the worst in most people, but TBMs' special brand of hypocrisy just multiplies the disgusting behaviour. It's just so astonishing that the very group who prizes "good works" above all else cannot even manage to be civil or decent, let alone honest. They are lying, cheating scoundrels, lacking in even basic morality -- just like JS. And that is my testimony.

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Posted by: donbagley ( )
Date: June 02, 2019 05:18PM

I share your testimony, irishrose.

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Posted by: heartbroken ( )
Date: June 02, 2019 05:26PM

You've heard the saying that a person who marries for money earns every penny of it? Same with children who stay with abusive parents solely for the money they will inherit. That is what your sisters did. They stuck by your abusive dad for the payout. In the process they also inherited his heartless and abusive behavior. They earned what they got from their father and paid the price. Was it worth it?

Be happy you didn't lower yourself to do what they did. You were smart and walked away. Let them keep their money and abusive behavior. Don't look back.

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Posted by: Nightingale ( )
Date: June 02, 2019 05:35PM

I too am sorry, Don, for what you and your brothers have been through and for what continues to happen. It's appalling that people treat others this way, particularly their own family. Parents can do irreparable harm, through ignorance, neglect, or wilful malevolence.

I'm sorry for your little boy self. I trust you have found happiness in life despite the bad start and ongoing stress and abuse from family. That is purely through your own will and strength and is a big achievement.

You know what they say about artists - their talent arises and shines from the pain they suffer. The rest of us are the beneficiaries of the music and sculpture and pictures and text and verse they produce. Just as we enjoy reading your stories, Don. Despite the pain that underlies them.

You are your family's loss, our gain.

I am sorry for your pain. But I thank you for sharing your soul with us. One thing I know - talking about one's hurt and sorrow can be healing. So through their telling, here's hoping you find a measure of comfort. Many of us certainly appreciate you and your work and your willingness to share. We cry, we laugh, we learn, we try harder to do better.

You are a gift.

I hope your father's non-existence now will bring more peace to you. And that you can avoid a lot of family negativity. Maybe there will be days on end you don't have to think about it at all. Seems as though Mormonism produced a lot of rotten fruit in your family and you were the unfortunate recipient. I hope for peace and healing for you. And thank you for all the stories. (Thanks, cricket, too for storing them up).

Take care, Don. All the best.

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Posted by: Elder Berry ( )
Date: June 03, 2019 10:59AM

Sorry for your lo$$ Don. It was all about Benjamin Franklins for him anyway. They can make dresses out of dollar bills and keep pumping his money into Mormonism.

Us the children of the tragic Mormon family fantasy as it plays out with over-the-top parental narcissism can console ourselves in not being as deluded as they are/were.

When mine leave this world for their new home near Kolob I won't shed any tears for lost time or money.

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Posted by: sbg ( )
Date: June 03, 2019 11:02AM

Time to be done with all of them, return any further communication "refused return to sender" or just use it as fire starter.

When they come to you to help with "dear old mom", ignore them. You are under no obligation to ever see or speak to your sisters and mother again. They are really horrible people.

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Posted by: Hockeyrat ( )
Date: June 05, 2019 09:12PM

I hope they give 10% to the church and on fast offerings. It’s like blood money in a way, earned by holding back essentials that were supposed to go to you and your brother. A sociopath is a person with no empathy towards others and gets off on making others suffer ; they fit the definition

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Posted by: Elder Berry ( )
Date: June 06, 2019 03:59PM

Does your father have an obit?

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Posted by: donbagley ( )
Date: June 06, 2019 08:56PM

He did, but my family blocked it.

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Posted by: Elder Berry ( )
Date: June 07, 2019 10:15AM

I found it. I wanted to post a sentence from it that really got to me. I don't want to post the link or the sentence if it will upset you.

Long ago I posted a post on a Google Group for a UK Ward by Tom Phillips' son who was a bishop. It really upset him. I've learned my lesson.

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Posted by: donbagley ( )
Date: June 07, 2019 07:53PM

You may post anything of mine you like, Elder Berry. I consider us shipmates.

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Posted by: Elder Berry ( )
Date: June 10, 2019 03:27PM

Thanks Don!

I found this especially galling and something my family would print.

"He gave the best Priesthood and Father Blessings to family members and those who were sick and needed them."
https://www.hughesmortuary.com/notices/EmanuelBob-Bagley

You and I would have preferred cash to this garbage priesthood cache!

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Posted by: donbagley ( )
Date: June 11, 2019 02:21AM

It was all mouth and no money.

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Posted by: Elder Berry ( )
Date: June 11, 2019 11:14AM

It is a pattern in bad families intertwined with Mormonism. Words over emotional love and physical support.

When I read that blurb from your father's obit I felt smacked by his priesthood.

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Posted by: nomonomo ( )
Date: June 11, 2019 12:13PM

Elder Berry Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
>
> "He gave the best Priesthood and Father Blessings
> to family members and those who were sick and
> needed them."


I noted the same. Client testimonial? What, are they selling these blessings? No, they're selling the BS about his life.


There may be a bit of "truth" about people liking this. It's easy to be nice and likable around other people who don't really expect anything from you and whom you owe nothing.

For example, my first exposure to narcissistic charm was when my dad taught school after retiring from the navy. He taught in the same school I attended, so his students were my peers. I started hearing how "lucky" I was, and how "cool" my dad was! I was dumbfounded, because the dad I knew was cruel and belittling. My dad was an @$$hole. My dad was money grubbing and greedy. Surely they weren't talking about the same guy! But they were. Just not the same behavior. And not the same responsibilities. It's easy to be likable and charming in a group of virtual strangers.

My dad was the life of the party when it least mattered, and AWOL when it did.

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Posted by: Elder Berry ( )
Date: June 11, 2019 01:42PM

nomonomo Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> My dad was the life of the party when it least
> mattered, and AWOL when it did.

Love this. It so my parents and something I fight in myself. I am trying to not be AWOL and run away to virtual strangers so much.

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Posted by: cl2 ( )
Date: June 11, 2019 12:19PM

Why do people write obits like that??? My parents' obits were very short and didn't say anything about callings, etc. I don't plan on having an obit. I didn't realize that was possible until my boyfriend's dad didn't have one. He also didn't have a funeral. They had a party celebrating his life at his home. He was cremated.

But your dad's obit was like so many other mormon obits. Whenever I read something that sounds so "perfect" I have to wonder what they are trying to hide--kind of like fb.

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Posted by: Wowza ( )
Date: June 17, 2019 08:53AM

Let's not forget, the church teaches members to reward or punish their children by giving or denying inheritance.

You obviously didn't meet the checklist of requirements. And the rest of your family can call you a sociopath, because you mentioned money. In the just universe fallacy, you got screwed over because you deserved it somehow. This alleviates them from responsibility or guilt.

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Posted by: donbagley ( )
Date: June 17, 2019 02:58PM

That's exactly what happened.

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