Here is the link

https://youtu.be/-PcroEU-q-8

I will be supporting a sex therapist.

Say what you will about Dehlin, this sort of thing is useful.

They have canceled Natasha's disciplinary council for now. There were 3 police cars infront of the church building.

John Dehlin announced that the crowd and Natasha have been told to leave the church premises and they are meeting up at a new spot downtown. From here, John will live stream in 30 or 45 minutes with Natasha. The gist I got was that Natasha has her notes on her phone and needed to take it in to the meeting not trusting her emotions and abilities to say what she wanted to say without having it with her. She made the promise that neither she nor her witnesses would record the proceedings but the church would not agree to this.

What a fiasco. There is a good-sized crowd of supporters for her, about 50, many of whom have traveled long distances to stand with her. Colorado, Texas and Utah were some of the places represented.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 04/18/2021 10:32PM by presleynfactsrock.

Natasha is live on facebook.

She's talking sadly about the damage to her marriage. That's the sort of thing we don't see enough of. As Stalin and Putin and others realize, an impending trial imposes great stress on people and families. The punishment for violating the hierarchy's wishes starts long before the main event.

It's important to recognize how the mere possibility or probability of church discipline harms people. Natasha and her husband are already victims.

Did she get to spend any time with her assigned defense counsel?

No. For some incomprehensible reason, you did not show up.

Yeah, I knew it would be continued...

It's my plan to have her throw herself at the mercy of the court. Pretty clever, huh?

An astute legal strategy, Counselor, as one might have expected!

I think the takeaway on this for me and a lot of people is that the "new face" of LDS corp, all that kinder/gentler mainstreaming crap that Nelson has been pushing, is so much superficial public relations manipulation and that the basic authoritarianism hasn't changed.

For those who want to watch.

https://youtu.be/AqFWqunsT34

could someone give us the conclusion to all this? Was she ex'd or was everything called off or postponed or what? TIA

I think in a couple of days Natasha will receive a certified letter. In the letter will stand if she is excommunicated or disfelllowshiped or if she is still a member in good standing.

That's what happened with Sam Young

Sounds like a not-so-subtle control mechanism, like when the car salesman disappears to confer with his sales manager.

I watched a bit of this and I don't get it. Natasha knew what she was getting into when she took LDS referrals. There is nothing wrong with her ideas unless you are dealing with the Mormon church. Let it go and move on.

>>Natasha knew what she was getting into when she took LDS referrals.

Was she paid by a Mormon bishop to counsel church members? Or was she simply a professional who happened to have Mormon clients?

The latter.

Summer, imagine if I would tell a stake president when he asked me if I keep the law of chastity that I have a vibrator because my lds sex therapist encouraged me to do so.Even if Natasha has never said that to me my little lie could have gotten her in big trouble lol.

Basically Natasha can be innocent and a client can misunderstand what she is saying and can go to the bishop and get her in trouble is my fear. The lds community is known for gossip.If someone doesn't leave on his mission the month he turns 18.One time I did want want to go on a youth temple trip when I was 17. So the bishop talked to my mom that I must be sexually active and feeling unworthy else I would go on the temple trip. No I had big test in school and t needed to study that was all no sex involved. Aaunyway I hate those authority rumors.

subeamnotlogedin Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Basically Natasha can be innocent and a client can
> misunderstand what she is saying and can go to the
> bishop and get her in trouble is my fear. The lds
> community is known for gossip.If someone doesn't
> leave on his mission the month he turns 18.One
> time I did want want to go on a youth temple trip
> when I was 17. So the bishop talked to my mom that
> I must be sexually active and feeling unworthy
> else I would go on the temple trip. No I had big
> test in school and t needed to study that was all
> no sex involved. Aaunyway I hate those authority
> rumors.

I'm sorry that happened to you.

That kind of crap happens all the time. Members start rumors all the time to pass judgment on others. It really makes them feel better about themselves.

I brought the wrong kind of potato chips (Eagle brand made by Anheuser-Busch) and Sunkist orange soda- caffeine to a youth activity at the park. Not only was I pulled aside and questioned about my intentions (and had a ppi on the spot), someone questioned whether I should be allowed to turn in my missionary papers. One leader got a plastic bag and used to his paper toweled covered hands to promptly throw away the unopened items.

...and the church leadership wonders why people are leaving.

Messygoop wow you got in trouble over chips and soda? That is crazy! I had a Relief Society president and she would drink diet coke frequently and she had a temple recommend but maybe she bought the right chips lol?

I guess my point is, as a professional she is under no obligation to adhere to Mormon teachings. Of course the Mormon church may not see it that way. IMO her first and most important obligation is to use her best professional judgment in counseling her patients.

Hence the excommunication.

Faith or career? In my opinion she should be able to have both.

Agreed.

But that is not how the LDS church thinks.

Russell Nelson used to be a heart surgeon, and a quite good one at that. Imagine if the Mormon Church (like some other Modern American Religious sects) had a religious rule against blood transfusions, and had Excommunicated Russell Nelson for regularly performing heart surgery that involved blood transfusions.

That is effectively what is happening here in this case. It is completely asinine.

It never ceases to amaze me as I witness the spectrum of member's reactions in the church....what one person would not put up with or be happy with is hunky-dorry with the next person. I think I have explanations and understanding, but then I don't.

I'm curious if she has stated if her marriage is ending due to the nuances she holds as a believing member. Anyone know?

I was very impressed by Natasha as she spoke. Her spirituality and attitude towards issues of sex seem to be very integrated in to her as a whole shame-free person which is uncommon in mormonism. I am not really religious at all myself. But when she can talk about her testimony and then how there is no such thing as addiction to pornography except perhaps that created by the church leaders themselves over the pulpit, in the same discussion (she said something about church leaders creating images of people humping in front of the kids and everyone and inappropriately, in church), I see a person who is not in conflict herself. She appears to be very honest and telling the truth as she sees it. She doesn't need the church leaders to validate who she is nor what she believes. I don't agree with the testimony part myself - no religious testimony is real as far as I am concerned. But her testimony is her truth and I can respect that from an honest person.

She hugged a gay man while trying to explain how the church leaders do not show love. She has a lot of support from the church members who she has helped. If the church leaders excommunicate her, I wonder if she could sue the church. Everything she teaches is clinically approved and she is licensed by the state to teach those things. Per the most recent version of the church handbook, her pre-approved witnesses (who hold temple recommends) had a right to speak at her trial. They were not allowed to speak and these men called the police instead. Three weak men hid inside the Stake President's office from three women who were politely prepared to call them out for their kangaroo court.

Her post about "trading one patriarchal prick for another" may have taunted her church leaders. They probably already know they're pricks but don't like others to call them on it, especially a woman.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 04/20/2021 12:22AM by azsteve.

^^^^ Well said and well written.

> If the church leaders
> excommunicate her, I
> wonder if she could
> sue the church.


Anyone can file a lawsuit with whatever claims for which they desired a remedy. You can literally file a lawsuit demanding that Joe Biden declare that you are the legal owner of these United States of America. (Turns out, I'm not...)

My point being, it's not filing a lawsuit that counts, it's substantiating the claims you make in your lawsuit.

So what would Natasha claim?

I imagine she'd either seek redress for any wrongs that were done to her by the defendant, i.e., money, or whatever it takes to make her 'whole' again. Or she would seek the power of the court to enforce a right or rights.

If and when she is, what used to be called excommunicated, but is now being called 'membership withdrawal' (isn't 'withdrawal' laden with sexual overtones, or is it just me?), I think she would have a hard time proving up damages. Especially if her 'bookings' increased.

Courts have an easy time understanding how much money a plaintiff lost due to the actions of a defendant, but they have a heck of a time with intangibles. Courts are all about making the plaintiff "whole" again, but how does an earthly court remedy excommunication?

I think it extremely unlikely that the court would hear any arguments regarding a ruling that los mormones reinstate her membership. That's 'ghawd' country, and while courts don't seem to have a problem telling religions that they can't break established laws, they do have a problem telling religions how to 'religion'.

And what's 'membership' in the mormon church worth? What are your losses and would such loss or losses have a monetary value?

Imagine a jury having to come up with dollar compensation for having your temple covenants dissolved.

So... what should Natasha sue for if she suffers untimely membership withdrawal?

Here is an update

https://www.sltrib.com/religion/2021/04/19/lds-sex-therapist-was/

This article by Kathy Stephenson is well done, very professional. I followed the video recording done by Dr. John Dehlin which was posted on YouTube and found this article to be factual, clear and concise.

Thanks for sharing this sunbeamnotlogedin.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 04/20/2021 02:50AM by presleynfactsrock.

Does anyone know? What happened to Natasha? Did she get excommunicated? Has the church decided to stop that non sense and keep her as a member? Think of all the tithing money they could loose if they excommunicate a working member? When I left I was a stay at home mom not making a penny lol.

On facebook Natasha posted.They withdrew her membership.

I wonder if she felt it leaving her body?



Does that mean that there's a string tied to my 'membership' and they can pull that string and yank my 'membership' from out of my body?

I wonder if it hurts? I wonder if I would feel the void? Would I lose weight?

So many questions!!!!

Here is another update on Natasha.

https://www.sltrib.com/religion/2021/04/23/jana-riess-lds/?fbclid=IwAR3lzqxxJ_e9QildkVwzxU-A6IhJcLoEir_-ybzieh8kayqy5h7SKZETm78