I've been dating this girl for a significant amount of time (about 8 months) and we have gotten pretty serious. We really love each other a lot, I can most definitely see a future with this girl, and even though we are both in school still, we have talked about getting married in the next 2 to 3 years, if we still dating, of course.

Just to preface my actual question and problem a little bit: I am a recovering exmormon, now pursuing a life of atheism, which my girlfriend is supportive and cool with. My girlfriend isn't necessarily an 'ex' mormon, but she doesn't go to church anymore, she doesn't believe in most of the doctrine and practices, and is kind of in transition to leaving the church as well. We both grew up in very strict mormon households and our immediate families are extremely TBM.

So, as we have talked about marriage, we both obviously would like to have a normal wedding, not a temple wedding. But here's the problem: My girlfriend strongly suggests we lie to everyone- our family, friends, bishop, SP, community, and follow through with getting a temple marriage. Why? Well, because she knows that if she doesn't get married in the temple, she will lose her family. They will cut her off completely. That's how devout mormon her (and my) family are. They will shun her from their lives forever. It has already happened to her cousin. That is the only reason she feels like she needs to marry in the temple.

Now, I know that lying is morally wrong and I would absolutely hate to have to be fake for a little while, but if it means my girlfriend gets to 'keep' her family, then I will do anything for her. I'm trying to justify lying to bishops and family and etc. just for the sake of my girlfriend being able to maintain close a good relationships with her family she loves so much.

I'm not saying that's what we will for sure end up doing if we do get married, but that is a huge possibility. What do you guys think of this?

...that according to her TBM family's belief system they will never see each other once they die. Her mom and dad will be populating their own universe, her brothers and sisters will be populating their own universes with their respective husbands and wives.

In short, if kolobianism is correct and they all "endure to the end" they will never see each other again even if they are sealed to one another.

So why would it be a big deal to cut them off now? Does she really want to stay close to people who put her in the position of lying? That's not unconditional love.

They are not the loving family she thinks they are if they will shun her for not getting married in the temple...

Say you do the temple marriage thing, what then? Do you keep on going to church to keep the in-laws happy? I'm willing to bet that if they shun her for not getting married in the temple then they will shun her when she announces her disbelief in mormonism.

My advice, be honest to yourselves and live your life for yourselves...

It is also possible that your GF isn't as far removed from mormonism as she is letting on... just something to think about.

I'd be really worried that your GF would want to go back to TSCC as soon as kids enter the picture. Lots of members may not believe it, but don't see the real harm that it does either. Many of those think it's a great way to raise kids, and are willing to go back for what they think is the good of the kids.

I'd love to see your GF take a stand, choose the right, tell the truth and join her cousin. It sounds like the cousin could use some support. Why don't they get together and form their own family of black sheep. Hopefully more siblings and cousins will join it eventually. ;-)

Living your life for the approval of others is a mistake. Where will you draw the line and begin telling the truth?

When you negotiate with hostage takers, and this is exactly what's going on, why wouldn't they threaten to have nothing to do with her UNLESS you and she are active...

UNLESS you and she stop practicing birth control...

UNLESS the two of you have your children baptized...

(even though you yourselves don't believe--don't let the children drift off into space just because you are under Satan's control...) Let US teach them the gospel...and we'll pick them up for church.

You see, at some point, you have to claim your own lives as adults. If your families only love the adult children who belong to their church, you haven't lost much now have you?

Far better you start your lives together united. You have a right to believe or not believe whatever you want and your belief or non-belief is "something" not "nothing." You respect their beliefs and have every right to ask them to honor the article of faith that says Mormons respect the beliefs of others.

That includes family members--remember, FAMILY FIRST?

Anagrammy

I know it may go against your new atheistic ways (I am atheistic myself) but consider this because it is wisdom.

King James Bible:
For this cause shall a man leave his father and mother, and cleave to his wife;

Huge mistake IMO if you start a marriage with a lie. Far better to be right up front and stand firm as a couple than to get down the road and later announce your unbelief after ou have made “covenants” that your family will freak over the breaking of. Once you stand tall as a couple everything afterwards will be cake compared to the initial disappointments.

I would really question her motives. Temple marriage is one slippery slope. What other concessions will you have to make after that? Don’t step off that cliff. You need to have a real heart to heart with her and ask her these hard questions.

“Honey, should we start off a marriage with the lie of the century? Will this make it easier for us to lie in the future? I don’t like where this will send us. Lets tell the truth and let the chips fall where they may. We will both be stronger for it. We cannot live our marriage lying to protect ourselves from what others think. Together we are strong. Lying will eventually destroy our marital foundation”

for who I honestly am than "loved" falsely for who I am not. I'd take my chances with being completely honest.

But, why not give it more time? If I remember correctly, you're still pretty young (18-19)?

Eight months isn't a lot of time to get to know a prospective spouse. Most people grow and change significantly in their early twenties-- I certainly did. People can change a lot in two or three years-- and not just you and your girlfriend, but also your families.

Why not keep getting to know each other and cross that bridge when you get closer to it? You might find that you're better able to handle possible rejection from your families in the future, or you might have more options to manage the situation than you can think of right now?

from the cult. Then the future you have together will built on a solid foundation.

The trouble is there would be no end to the compromises you'd have to make. First you would have to get married in the temple. Then you would need to get your children blessed. Later on, you would have to get them baptized. Where will it stop?

Your girlfriend needs to make a decision about who will be calling the shots in her life -- her or her parents. Until she does, thinking about a future with her is pointless.

+1

Well said, Summer.

rallychild Wrote:
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> What do you guys think of this?


I think: When you're both done your schooling and if you're still both love each other... elope and move far away from your TBM families.

What can she possibly hope to gain from this? A continued relationship with her family under false pretenses?

There is no situation in which this will end well for her. If her family claims they love her, she should put the burden of proof on THEM.

I realized a long time ago that I don't need my family. If they don't accept me for who I am (thankfully, they have), then I don't need them. All it creates is undue stress.

I told my TBM mom that I didn't want to get married in the temple. This was when I was in high school. She said, "Well I won't be at your wedding then." Of course that didn't come close to happening when I did get married which wasn't in the temple. She had fun planning it and everything went very well. We never did end up getting sealed in the temple later on either. I think she always thought we would eventually go through the temple. That was probably what she kept telling herself as we were planning for a civil ceremony.

You do need to be honest up front with your family. Otherwise, like others have said, when will it stop? You'll get roped in and you may never get out, or at least not without things getting really ugly.

I have to second other people's concerns about how far this will go.
How long are you willing to pretend, and in what ways? Are you going to go back to church, pay tithing, and be members in good standing just to keep them happy? If they will cut her off over not getting married in the temple, won't they also cut her off for expressing disaffection with the church later? It sounds like you'll be in a tight spot if you do marry in the temple because that's only the beginning of other things they will expect from you, considering you've told them you DO believe in order to get sealed.

Your story has been really interesting rallychild and I wish you and your girlfriend the best, but this feels like you're re-tangling yourself with the church right as you're gaining freedom and independence. Are you really happy to jump back in?

It sounds like she is more concerned with herself, her parents, her family, and her church than she is with you. That would be a little crowded for me, but if you are fine with with your place and priority in the scheme of things then go for it.

I wouldn't.

"..if we're still dating, of course.." said more to me than anything else you said. Stew on that a minute. Maybe it'll clear things up.

Ron

Lying is never right. She needs to make the break sometime. If she wants a real wedding- I mean really wants it- now is the only time she can do it (when you marry) No do-overs.Have your friends attend and any family that feels she is still "worthy" of their love. Those are the people you and she will interact with all through your lives.

Don't think her family will not shun her after she does the fake temple wedding and then leaves. They will. I agree with the above statement that she is more concerned with the family, her church and HER than she is with you. Won't it always come down to that if she starts out that way? She needs to grow up and you need to be firm about this. She is not going to be a great wife if she is still in the LDS church when that first baby comes. Then there is a ton of new pressure.

Which means you would have to attend and tith andbe a visable memeber in your local ward.
That is a lot of compromising just to keep others happy.
YMMV