Hey everyone...
Here's a little backstory: Several months ago, I emailed the bishop and told him that we were taking a break from church. He, of course, didn't like this. But it's our choice to stay away and we asked him to not send any home/visiting teachers to our house (as they hadn't been coming anyway for over a year). Lo' and behold, I've been having visiting teachers once a month for four months now. I've been allowing it, as I don't want to hurt the woman's feelings, but last night finally crossed a line for me. I have NEVER felt so dark and sh*tty about myself after a VT/church visit as I did last night. She used to be my YW leader, so we've known each other for years. We were talking about our childhoods, both of which were kinda effed-up, but anytime I said anything, she'd say something along the lines of, "If you had the Spirit with you, you would be able to let it go." I just couldn't believe how she kept on belittling my feelings! Why ask me questions about how I'm feeling lately if you don't want to hear the answer?! She could tell I was sad and needed a friend, but all she did was ask me if I was wearing my garments (yes, really), and if I still believed in God. I have felt the need to be truthful lately, so I told her I didn't know what I believed, and she got very serious and started bearing her testimony (UGH). But she just kept on saying things to me that are just not nice for conversation. Like how I'm inactive and that maybe the reason I don't feel welcome at church anymore is because I'm not reaching out to people myself. I told her that I'd heard that people were gossiping about us, and she said they probably were, and she acted like it was okay. Like I basically asked for it because I stopped attending. Argh. I'm getting closer to resigning. Especially after last night. I have NEVER felt like this after a visit. I honestly thought that my ward was full of lovely people who loved me like I loved them. Guess it really was conditional.

I'd say I was sorry you had a such a rotten visit, but it's kind of inevitable that you will eventually see them for what they are.

I hope you can move on more easily now.

I had the opportunity to tell a VT to her face that I didn't want to become her friend. It was hard, but it saved me a lot of grief. Can you tell her that you had asked for no visits and would like them to start observing that request now? It isn't personal, you don't want to hear any more testimonies for a while.

Setting personal boundaries is a stretch for most of us at first, but it gets easier.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 10/29/2011 07:13PM by Heresy.

It's like that part in Buckaroo Bansai when Buckaroo gets zapped and then he is able to see the red lectroids for what they really are.

You have been zapped !

Sounds a little like what I went thru. Prepare to be "Love Bombed" They just dont like for anyone to leave. You are gonna have to just up and resign and stand up to them. I will never forget the evening that my VT "companion" or whatever they call themselves now was on her way over to get me for neighborhood visiting, or as I called it "gossiping". Anyway, I just felt so much blackness and evilness about that whole situation that I went and literally hid in my closet. I covered myself up with clothes, so that my husband could not find me, which he didnt for a few hours and when he did find me, he did not force me to go, but I was crying like a 3 yr old cause I just did not feel right about it. The entire VT/Mormon thing, and his exact words to me were "Gee, I have never seen you like this!" He wasn't mad, but he did respect my wishes for me not to go, and that was pretty well the end of the whole VT thing that I was "forced" into. BTW, I only went with that lady for 1 session, and I just couldnt believe the gossip in those circles. Maybe if you ignore them long enough, send them a quit letter and resign, change your phone number and or move, they will get the hint.

One day i had a message on my answering machine. It was my VT requesting an appointment. it then sounded like she hung up the phone, but not all the way. My recorder caught what she was really thinking.......and i quote "Damn that bitch she has nothing to do, and she makes it impossible for me to get my 100% in every month. That just pisses me off!"

Needless to say no Vt or HT been allowed over since. The bishop didn't believe me so i played the tape back for him. He was speechless. This was one of those sweet whispy voiced women who wouldn't say shit if she had a mouth full.

Wow, mia, that's a great story! Morg hypocrit exposed!

LOL!

..."Damn that bitch she has nothing to do, and she makes it impossible for me to get my 100% every month. That just pisses me off!"

Glad she was caught on tape!

To confusedinck (interesting name, looks a little strange in a humorous way)

You are on the right track. She is no longer on your wave length. You will replace the churchy friends with other more wholesome types.
You deserve and need to thank the universe for sending terrific friends and companions into your life now. Get out and about and just visit with people in line, at shows, at Christmas bazaars, events etc. Just talking with people who aren't crazy TBMs will boost your morale. Regular people will not require you to talk in a sugar sweet voice and debase yourself to some presumed authority called mans' priesthood.

People like you for yourself.

It's okay to cry and be mad to release the insulting emotional bomb your former friend dropped on you. She has no idea how hateful she was bearing her testimonkey and bearing down in pure testimonkey on you thinking she has some authority over you because she's a 'happy active' member of a cult that you are supposed to be in!

Write a letter to her and tell her off. Then burn the letter to release it. Don't send it to her it wouldn't help. But it sure can help you!

mia Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> One day i had a message on my answering machine.
> It was my VT requesting an appointment. it then
> sounded like she hung up the phone, but not all
> the way. My recorder caught what she was really
> thinking.......and i quote "Damn that bitch she
> has nothing to do, and she makes it impossible for
> me to get my 100% in every month. That just pisses
> me off!"

Talk about a passive aggressive chick. I bet she just is seething inside! Nothing like showing your true colors. I wonder if she accidentally on purpose didn't hang up when she said that.

I'm so sorry you went through that. It is very hard when we discover that people we thought were real friends are just mouthpieces for the Morg, trying to herd us back into the corral.

You don't have to go back in there.

I'm in a similar situation with a former VT who stayed friends with me when I moved into a different ward. I thought we were real friends, no church needed. But now that I'm inactive, and making decisions that are not in line with LDS doctrine, she's trying to prod (cattle prod!!) me back "on path". It makes me so sad ... today I'm particularly sad, since a recent conversation with her made it very clear she doesn't care about ME; she cares about getting me back into the same mind-prison she's in herself. No way I'm going!

Heresy said it well: setting boundaries IS difficult at first, but as we keep doing it, it does get easier.

My "friend" is out of town until next week, but we have a lunch date scheduled. That'll be my big test of boundary-setting.

I wish you didn't have to go through what you're going through, but I guess learning that some friendships are conditional is part of growing. No wonder it's called "growing pains." Hurts like hell.

You have my best wishes and good thoughts.

I hate that the Mormon Church counsels anyone on anything.

Some amateur posing as a wise sage isn't going to cure all life’s problems and sweeping feelings under the rug is not dealing with anything. It's just pushing away your life/feeling in order to make way for the Mormon agenda, don't think, just keep busy and do what you're told and you'll be happy. That's their plan.

Lie, deny and play your role.

Religion can’t fix addiction, bad parenting, child abuse or any other problem and if is stops the patient from seeking the appropriate education or medical help, doctors, therapists or psychologist it has done more harm than good.

That bad taste in your mouth is from someone trying to feed you a line of bull.

One visit like that and I would be out the door...her comment "They probably are" is just outrageous. And Jesus approves? she is one of those arrogant types. Don't attend a place that makes you uncomfortable or has people like her in it. REally search you soul and do what YOU want - not as others want you to do.

what they think or feel (don't matter) they know it and you should too.

Brain washing is complete.

Shhhhuuuuu.....don't want to wake them out of the Mormomism induced haze. And they think pot is bad, these people are dosed up on enough religion to keep them addicted for life, and they keep going back to the crack pipe of Mormonism each Sunday.

You got that right. In a haze, in a fog, in a stupor. They are in it!!!

Sorry I haven't replied till now, but I was making dinner. :)
I think what I'm going to do is write a message to this woman on Facebook, and tell her that I don't want a visiting teacher anymore. I'm going to explain why. And then I'm going to email the bishop (again), and tell HIM that I do not want him to send people my way ever again. Take me off VT/HT lists and do not try to re-convert me.
Of course, this is only until I find the strength to really quit for good.

Thanks for all the support! My usual experience is that people yell at me for being so stupid as to allow myself to be a punching bag and for staying. lol

and put the puzzle together yet. We've all been there.

I will point out that they will pose as the authorities in your life and every thing you ask for will be considered a 'request', and course if you set a boundary like 'don't send church representatives' they will over ride that because they know what's best for you 'little girl'.

What they understand is this, I am not accepting representatives from your Church and any contacts will be turned away and if you continue to call and show up at my door I will be forced to take legal action and file harassment reports.

That is a firm/fair boundary with a consequence if they cross it. That’s what is healthy for you.

Excellent advice. Yes, these people need to know you will go further if they don't heed your advice.

....people yell at me for being stupid....

That comment just hurts my heart.

so glad to hear hubby isn't a total TBM. Great hope there. Your daughter is one lucky girl.

I was raised in the church like your husband. One day i realized it wasn't about losing part of me, but about losing a very negative influence in my life.

They don't want me back,
I want to leave, but I've been wanting to wait for my husband to leave as well. He doesn't believe, but he was raised in it, and feels, right now, like it would be removing a part of who he is. He's open to the idea of leaving someday though. He doesn't want our daughter to be raised in it.

Confusedinck, I am a literal concerned that if you say "don't try to re-convert me" they will take that as you making a statement of apostacy and initiate disciplinary proceedings. They think nothing of putting pressure on your dh to humiliate him even if you don't care.

So be careful how you word things until you are ready to leave on your own terms. Leave it vague like you are taking a break and do not want to be hassled while you sort things out.

Best of luck, you are a courageous woman to call a spade a spade on that manipulative and insulting VT visit.

Anagrammy

anagrammy Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Confusedinck, I am a literal concerned that if you
> say "don't try to re-convert me" they will take
> that as you making a statement of apostacy and
> initiate disciplinary proceedings. They think
> nothing of putting pressure on your dh to
> humiliate him even if you don't care.
>
> So be careful how you word things until you are
> ready to leave on your own terms. Leave it vague
> like you are taking a break and do not want to be
> hassled while you sort things out.
>
> Best of luck, you are a courageous woman to call a
> spade a spade on that manipulative and insulting
> VT visit.
>
> Anagrammy

Thank you for pointing that out to me, I wouldn't have caught that in time at all, lol!

at bay.

At what cost you the both of you? and you don't owe them that.

I will point out that I'm not a professional either. Just want to fill in my disclaimer.

They don't want me back Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> at bay.
>
> At what cost you the both of you? and you don't
> owe them that.
>
> I will point out that I'm not a professional
> either. Just want to fill in my disclaimer.

It seems that some stuff he has a hard time letting go of, such as pre-existence of souls and whatnot. He says that he isn't affected by the church having his name on the records, so why leave? Of course, he isn't the one getting insulting visits.

Is he encouraging the visits behind the scene to keep you on board. don't think for a min. people aren't talking to him.

honestone Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Is he encouraging the visits behind the scene to
> keep you on board. don't think for a min. people
> aren't talking to him.

he definitely isn't encouraging these visits. he dislikes them as much as me.

Please don't ever let anybody tell you you're stupid, confusedinck. You're far from it. You're lucky your DH doesn't believe and can be open to the idea of someday leaving.

Just keep telling these people (the VT, the Bish) that you don't want them to come over, and if they do anyway, just don't answer the door. Works for me. No one's ever called me on it; guess they're too embarrassed to say, "we came over even though you said not to, and you didn't answer the door, why not?" [evil giggle] ;-)

Sometimes its best to make a firm statement of what you want. with NO EXPLANATIONS. You don't owe them one. I have a rule of NO letters. they can come back to haunt you.


Stand firm. don't apologize for what you need.

You are not stupid--but I understand that "stupid" feeling, when you realize you believed their lies.

No, the cult and its members are not interested in the individual at all. What they care about is money, and their numbers.

"Friends" in the Mormon world, are people that you collect, convert, fellowship, so that you will appear popular with the other Mormons. Mormons really make a big fuss over someone who brings in new members. How many times do you hear, "Bring your friends and neighbors!" at meetings. I always felt stupid, that I didn't have friends I could manipulate or coerce into coming to church with me. I couldn't even make my own husband go to church. What an unpopular, friend-less failure I was.

It broke my heart, to find out the truth about Mormon friendships. When I left, I was quiet, and didn't speak out against the church, and I just stopped going. I did nothing to make them angry, yet I lost every one of my neighborhood Mormon friends. I kept a few childhood friends, and I've still on good terms with my TBM family.

Right now, is the worst you will ever go through. That recorded message of Mia's is our worst social nightmare! Yet, it is very real. This type of Mormon behavior is so common, that I can tell you that "IT ISN'T PERSONAL." This is just standardized, rude Mormon behavior.

The Mormons were very ugly and mean to me and my children, as we were leaving. It was this time of year--Thanksgiving and Christmas holidays--when they loved-bombed and harassed us so relentlessly, that we ended up hating Mormons. The bishop threatened me that the children and I would fail financially if we did not pay tithing. We were threatened that Satan would get hold of us. We were accused of things we would never do. We were good people, so they had to invent rumors to gossip about. I was maligned and accused in my own home, in front of my own children. My son and I stood up, and escorted the two priesthood holders to the door, Men came to my house late at night, in groups of two's and three's--even after the porch light had been turned off--and banged loudly, until I had to call through the door, "It is after 9:30, and I won't let strangers into the house." They would answer, "We're the Mormon missionaries/from the basketball team/Stake representatives," or whatever they were. I would repeat that I would not open my door to strangers.

I know the feeling of wanting to hide in the closet. It is one of those "aha! moments." I did almost the same thing, when I stayed home from the Primary Christmas party. For many good reasons, I just did not want to be with those people, so I turned off all the lights, and hid in the back room. When the doorbell rang, I thought, "Why am I so intimidated?"

You need to listen to your own heart, and your own gut reaction. If you knew the full extent of the Mormon lies, and how deep they go, and how far back into their history, you would understand why you don't feel quite yourself around these people. If you were to go to the temple, and through their rituals for the dead, you would understand that Mormons are creepy. I think you already know all of this.

Good luck on ending this unnecessary misery.

So don't let down the drawbridge!

There is no law in our country that says you have to respond to a knock or ring on your door. There is no law that says you have to open it. There is no law that says you have to pick up or respond to phone calls. So don't!

You know what this woman is selling. Do you really feel the need to keep the sales appointments that she sets up?

If anyone ever dared to say to me, "If you had the Spirit with you, you would be able to let it go," I would respond, "the Mormon church does not own the Holy Spirit. You would find that concept in any Christian church. So get over yourself. You don't tell the Holy Spirt where it can or can't go. It is far larger than you and far larger than the Mormon church."



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 10/29/2011 09:37PM by summer.

Also, when on the topic of sex before marriage (because that just HAD to come up), I told her that I don't feel guilty anymore about having "premarital sex." I told her that I felt that there are specific reasons that you shouldn't have sex outside of marriage, but that they're pretty simple--unwanted/planned pregnancy, STDs, not being emotionally ready, etc. She said, "Oh! Well, see, I guess I just look at it differently than you do, because I see it like this: Heavenly Father made it a commandment not to do it outside of marriage, so that's enough for me. Does that make sense?" I was like, "I honestly prefer to think that there are legit reasons for not doing something. I don't just think, 'Ah, well, it says this in a book, so I'd better not do that!' I come up with reasonable, logical reasons why it's not a good idea. So, I've stopped feeling even the least bit guilty about having sex with DH before marriage. It's over and done with, and it happens. Hormones! Ya know? Teenagers do things. I'm over it." And that's when she piped up with, "Maybe if you had the Holy Spirit with you, you'd still feel guilty." No fucking lie. I just kind of gaped at her, and then shrugged. I had no idea how to respond. I'd already said something perfectly reasonable to her, and she came out with something stupid.

She's always going to come out with something stupid, because that's how she's programmed. I'm sorry. She's a real piece of work, a total Morgbot. Keep doing your own thinking; you're doing just fine. :-)

I wanted my VT and HT to come, because I wanted to discuss the truths I had learnt about the Church. They only came twice and never again, although I invited them. And I had been active for 30+ years. So if you want to get rid of them, do not let them talk about you, but start asking questions about polyandry, BoM, PoGP-translations etc.etc. They will not come back. If you have not read much, I recommend starting with Grant Palmers book An insiders view...Or concentrate on one subject, like BoM-problems and be prepared. You will have a fun time next time they come around. You do not have problems, the Church has!