I've been having problems with my tbm family. I have not seen them in almost a year. I am in college and chose to keep them out of my life right now because of the toxic environment. This past week I told them I did not feel it was appropriate nor was I comfortable with coming over for Christmas. I just received a email today from my father and I am just trying to get an idea of how to respond.

Email from him:
///////////////////

cskawi,

It is disappointing to us that you cannot spend some time with us for Christmas. We had hoped that you would be willing to set aside your feelings or better yet speak with us and we work everything out so we could spend Christmas together.

It has come to my attention that you have been using my dental insurance. You have made it very clear, and continue to do so, that you don’t want anything to do with our family and have said that you will not be calling me Dad. I work hard to provide these benefits for our family and I’m not sure why you feel it’s ok to use these benefits if you no longer wish to have anything to do with us. With that being said, you will need to discuss the usage of my benefits with me by the 21th. I will meet you somewhere or you can come to my home but I will not discuss this with you through email.

csKawi, we know we have either said or done things that may have hurt you, but we have also been very hurt. We have tried to give you many chances to try to resolve this but you are unwilling and it can’t be done by email. We have been trying that for almost 3 years and have gotten nowhere. You said that you thought we were just trying to sweep this under the rug but it isn’t us doing that. You are. We have offered to meet with you and let you talk everything out but you are the one that refuses to do it. What then do you expect us to do? Nothing we say or do is ever right. Cskawi, you can keep being mad or you can take the steps to at least communicate with us to fix what needs to be fixed. I think we can all acknowledge that we each have been hurt but the choice is, to stay mad or to resolve the issues. Either way, I’m done with going around in circles with you. I love you but I just can’t stand by and let these issues continue to drag out. It has been going on long enough.

Remember, we need to discuss any further usage of any of my benefits by the 21st.

I love you and always will, Dad


/////////////////////

I am just tired of their bs. I am on their health insurance and dental insurance. I know the policy and it doesn't cost him anything to keep me on there because it is a family policy and does not have a limit on the amount of dependents. What is frustrating is I have my wisdom teeth scheduled to be taken out after the first of the year. They have claimed me on their taxes for the past three years and have given little to no support and yet get the tax deductions. They refuse to give me any information on their taxes to allow me to get my student loans unless I convince them to after many arguments. I am lucky enough to financially support myself and get my own health coverage and pay for tuition if needed. What pisses me off is they continue to act holier than thou that they were great parents and they fucked me over. What I need help with is what to say to them to get my point across that I am tired of their Mormon bs. I've decided that it would be best for me that I cut all contact with them after this last conversation. Nothing but trouble has come from talking to them the last year and I'm tired of trying. I don't know if it would be a good idea to meet in person or by phone but the entire situation is ridiculous.I am just now getting confident with myself and recovering from growing up in the church. I really want to be confident and confront him to show I am no longer in their manipulative control. I'm sorry if I seem like I am ranting but I just got through finals so this is the last thing I wanted to deal with. I can post any additional background info. Thanks for reading my vent. Any advice would be greatly appreciated.

The first thing is, if you really have cut yourself off from your family as completely as your dad says (no longer calling him Dad) then I would think he has a point about using his insurance. Of course, in that case he shouldn't be able to claim you on his taxes either. I could be wrong but I think you might be going a little too far by cutting off your family completely (unless there has been abuse that you haven't mentioned). I think what you really should be doing is setting boundaries with your parents. You have to be willing to communicate with them to let them know what the limits are, and then stick to those limits. First of all, your dad needs to be called on his manipulative behavior. If it were me, I would tell him that I am willing to have a conversation with him, but not until after the insurance issue is resolved. It's a simple choice he has to make - to let you use his insurance and continue claiming you on his taxes, or stop letting you use his insurance and stop claiming you on taxes. I would tell him that once he has made his decision, then I will be willing to set up a time to talk, on the phone or in person.
I think it's really important for you to have that talk with them, where you explain that you are an adult now and expect to be treated as one. You expect your religious views to be respected, and you are willing to respect theirs. You are in control of your own life and your family should allow you to make your own choices. If you set very clear boundaries of what behavior is acceptable, I would think you would be able to have some kind of tolerable relationship with your family.

Cskawi, I think that your family financial situation is complex enough that it does merit a face-to-face meeting. Your dad has a point about you using his insurance, but you have a point that he is still claiming you on his tax return even though he is providing little actual support. Before that meeting, I would get it sorted out what it would take for you to have your school consider you a financially independent student. You need to thorougly understand the advantages and disadvantages of being (nominally) dependent vs. independent. Having said that, it can be very difficult to get independent status at your age, and it can take one-and-a-half to two years to get that status. I'm sure you are already aware of that. Your dad claiming you on his tax return pretty much puts a stop to that. So all of this needs to be put on the table and hashed out.

Purely as a negotiating point, I would state to him that claiming you as a dependent means to the IRS that he is providing you with financial support. So perhaps if he wants to continue claiming you as a dependent he should consider helping you out with your educational expenses. He may not, but if he's a businessman my guess is that he'll be impressed by your negotiating tactics!

I remember when I was your age, I put a lot of emotion into establishing boundaries with my mom. In retrospect, I can see that it wasn't really necessary to do that. It's important to establish a boundary, and then enforce it in an unemotional way. The boundary that you will likely want to establish is that your involvement with the Mormon church, and your religious beliefs, are off the table as a topic of discussion. As for enforcement of that boundary, I recommend disengagement. Walk away, change the topic, or quickly hang up the phone (Sorry! Gotta go! Talk to you soon.) Look your parent in the eye, and say calmly, "Sorry, but I won't be discussing that. My religious choices are not up for discussion. I know that you don't like it, but that's how it is. We can either discuss something else, or I have to leave now." Or if the parent brings it up again, just stare at him or her without saying a word.

It's a training process, and it does work over time as long as your parent wants to have a relationship with you. It need not be a source of anxiety nor anger for you. Just think of it as enforce/disengage. Enforce/disengage.

If you are in a situation where it's hard for you to easily leave (i.e. you don't have a car,) bring that up with your dad. Tell him the little speech above, and mention that until you have a car and can leave as necessary, visits are impossible.

Also -- unless your wisdom teeth are acting up, I wouldn't consider it vital to get them out. I was in your situation in my early twenties. I had good dental insurance for a period of time, so I had it done. Recovery time if you have them all done at once is about three days. It's not something that I'd stress over, though. You can always have it done at another time if you wish.



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 12/19/2011 12:18PM by summer.

Any way you can push up your wisdom teeth removal?

It doesn't matter if he has to pay for the dental plan or not, it's something he's using as leverage to try to get you to meet him in person. It's obviously something that does not require a face-to-face. What happens if you just say you can't make it to discuss before the beginning of the year. What is he going to do? Take you off the policy? That would be a dumb move on his part, in case you tell him you'll submit to his will and do everything he says to remain on the policy. By then, his open enrollment window would be closed and you'd end up without it anyway. Meet with him after you have your wisdom teeth done. If that won't work, then just accept that you'll have to wait till you have your own dental insurance to get them done. Minor inconvenience, but not too drastic. (for the record, I really don't know anything about being under a parent's medical/dental plan, my father was self-employed and did not believe in health insurance of any kind).

A question: if you have your own health coverage, why have you allowed him to keep you on his?

Suggestions:
If you really support yourself, then you need to file your own taxes and send him a letter informing him that he is no longer authorized to claim you as a dependent. If you can get the paperwork together to show self sufficiency for the past years, you should be able to file an amended return. Speak to an accountant or your financial aid department (see next point)

I had the same problem in college, my father (who I never got along with, I listened to his constant mantra of "you're a failure, you'll always be a failure" all through grade school, through high school, and I fully believed it to the point where I'd purposely fail things because that was controlled, and I was too afraid to see the proof that he was right if I tried and failed, screwed up, right? Once I became a legal adult, I took charge of my life and no longer depended on him for any of my needs, and if he wasn't supporting me, then I didn't have to listen to his abuse) refused to hand over any tax records, and I was under 24 so I couldn't get loans on my own. When I asked for the tax records he just said I didn't need them because he WOULD pay for school and my living expenses so I didn't need loans, but that wasn't an option for me because I needed to not be beholden to him or subjected to his abuse (something that didn't stop even after I was supporting myself, which is why I had to cut ties or I would have never made it through college with the "failure" soundtrack constantly playing - not that it went away after I stopped speaking to him, but I learned how to make mistakes and accept them as normal, and eventually started to try instead of fail because that was expected of me, cutting him out was the healthiest thing I ever did) I worked full time through college, lived on my own, paid for everything, including tuition, on my own, but he wouldn't stop claiming me as a dependent, regardless of how I filed my own taxes, which further screwed me over.

Finally I spoke to the financial aid department and got the information about filing for emancipation (for financial aid purposes) so I could get school loans with out parental info before I turned 24. If you need student loans, speak to your financial aid office and find out about the process. (in the end, I gave up. School in my state was really cheap and while a loan would have helped, the time and labor involved in doing it was too much... no, actually, having to speak to my father and get him to fill out the papers to verify my claim was too daunting. Anyway, I made it on my own, but you don't have to. Look into this process.

As for whether or not you should cut them out all together... that's up to you. I cut my father out completely while I was in school and starting out with my career, and the circumstances just kept the estrangement going. I never would have made it through school and out into the career world if I hadn't cut him off. I'm not saying this to be dramatic, but I likely would have killed myself if I hadn't made the choice I did. The estrangement ended up lasting a couple decades, half of the time I spent harboring a lot of guilt. When I finally decided to get in contact with him, it was too late. So, that's my story, hopefully it will help with perspective or something.



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 12/19/2011 11:23AM by wittyname.

Given that it's a one-sided account of toxicity with no specifics, I'm going to come from the "I was once an arrogant college student" mindset, I'm going to be honest. I don't see anything in this email that's manipulative.

I see a father who's pissed off and annoyed, and yes - I don't doubt they have said things that hurt you. I seriously doubt everything you've said is above board to them either(particularly if you've stated anything about no longer wanting to call him Dad). I see a father posting in a way who feels that nothing they can say will do anything to appease you. Take that as an opportunity to be brutally honest about how you behave toward them. Do you discount everything your parents say, no matter what they're saying? Do you actually listen to them, or do you spend the time when they talk planning your rebuttal?

I think you do need to have a conversation with them, particularly if it's been a year since yes, they are still supporting you through at least insurance (and possibly student loan co-signing.) I think you reply that yes, you'll meet with them, but state beforehand that there is absolutely no way you're returning to the Mormon church, and that needs to be understood before you talk with them.

Being confident and independent means you won't be afraid to meet with him. Stand up for yourself in a manner that's both straight-forward and polite. Hold your ground, but don't be nasty or attacking. If they start attacking (and I mean GENUINELY attacking, not just saying things that are critical of your behavior), then leave. But be aware that some criticism of your behavior may be warranted, and just as you have serious problems with how they've treated you, there may be serious problems with how you treated them.

That's the sign you're an adult.

Regarding the insurance - If you have told them in any form you don't want contact with them, then yes - his opinion on the dental and health insurance is correct. He pays it - you're taking advantage of it. If you want to cut ties, then do it. Get your own. Can't afford it on your own? Then suck it up and accept that yes, you're going to need to listen to your parents on that one.

You claim to know the policy. Okay, great... but the policy you know no longer applies as of midnight on January 1st, regardless of what you've read/know. That's the insurance renewal date unless your dad's in a very odd company and there ARE changes every single year, and changes in cost limits per person on a policy are becoming much more common (I work in insurance and specifically handle benefits insurance). Between federal healthcare laws and individual company insurance adjustments, you don't know the changes unless you've been actively discussing this with him and have a copy of the policy for 2012. His deadline is likely when his open enrollment ends.

You will need to talk to him about this, and unless you take the route of paying for your own, you need to offer to pay toward the deductible he pays per month (and follow through with it). You will need to discuss this with him on his terms, because it's HIS policy you're using.

And no - you do NOT get the wisdom tooth surgery without discussing it with him first. He's the person on the policy, and he should be aware of those things because HE is ultimately responsible for those bills if you don't cover anything that's not covered by your co-pay.

+1

+1

My first impression from your post is that you are not being very accountable. It sounds like you have done many things that are pretty hurtful as well. I can tell you that your parents are only doing the best job they know how to do. Once you realize that, it is easier to come to the table seeking to understand rather than to be understood - or to be right. It might be a good idea for you to ask for a mediator. Not the bishop and not your mother. Perhaps a counselor or professional mediator that is not emotionally involved.

2/3 of the time, wisdom teeth don't need to be removed, it is a big scam by the dental industry.

http://news.yahoo.com/parents-sue-teen-dies-during-wisdom-tooth-surgery-143224302.html

That's good to know.

Even if you really do need them removed, you can live without it. All 4 of mine are very impacted, I've been told they needed to be removed for 19 years and have not done it, partially because I'm incredibly afraid of having them removed (mostly I'm afraid of having big, bloody holes in my mouth), but mainly because dental insurance only covers a tiny percent and it would cost thousands to have done. I have no problems with them still being in there, though every once n a while I experience some pressure and/or soreness, but it goes away. In recent years, I've had a few cavities in adjacent teeth, despite no change in oral hygiene, I don't know if it's related, but even if it is, I can afford cavities and can deal with the discomfort of having them treated. Still don't have the thousands to remove my wisdom teeth, and thanks to the fear, even if I did, they'd probably stay in there for life, unless something dramatic happened.

So not having them removed now probably won't harm the OP, and he can surely wait a few years till he has his own dental insurance if need be.

They can become infected, then you really have problems.
Also, they can gradually push the rest of your teeth out of place and cause all kinds of bite problems or TMJ syndrome in the future.

Well, I already had TMJ...and yep, it has caused shifting. If only I could get over the fear of big bloody holes in my mouth (and since I need them hacked away by an oral surgeon, if only health insurance covered it). Hopefully I'll remain infection free. I rinse my mouth with peroxide every day, not sure if that helps or is just in my mind.

cskawi
If you were older, I would swear you were my sibling. My parents would still be doing this kind of stuff if they could. It never ends.
A lot of people can't wrap their mind around what it's like to have parents that are so manipulative and controlling. A lot of people don't think I am telling them the truth, because they can't imagine it. 90% of communication is non-verbal. To understand how people like your father operates, they may need to be in the room. Even then, all of your history can come roaring back with a single eyebrow raised.

What it boils down to is their way or the highway. Be TBM, or go away. They will use any attachment they can to force you into their religion. It's so sad. Yet so true. So hurtful. I'm so sorry you are being put through this.

Sorry, but I have to agree with the others. If you have cut yourself completely off from your family, refusing to call your dad - dad, then he does have a right to take you off their medical, no matter the cost to him.

Try to patch it up and build a relationship with your family based not on beliefs, but just family.

I wish you the best and hope you can work it out with your dad and the rest of your family.

Twenty years ago, I was the same, f-k you it's my life, you can't tell me what to do. Now, even though we don't see each other a lot, don't see eye to eye, and religion is the white elephant in the room for my parents and one sibling. I'm still grateful I have my parents and siblings in my life.

right now with my son--and I'm not mormon and he also isn't. I've been through some issues with my TBM daughter. They are in their 20s. I raised them mostly as a single mom from 10 on up and NOBODY ever thought my kids would think I was a f8ck up, but they've had their times of thinking so. My daughter seems to be coming out of it to an extent. My son has been the worst in the past year and he just turned 26.

I would never cut my son off insurance no matter what he did. BUT my son right now cannot see ANYTHING we do for him and only see what we don't do for him--and I could go on and on and on and on about what we've been through with him, so I do understand your dad's frustration. Most of us think we KNOW IT ALL when we are in our 20s.

My daughter thinks the reason I'm not mormon is because I've never felt the spirit like she has. She is JUST LIKE I WAS at that age--and she thinks she has chosen to be different.

So--your perspective is going to change BIG TIME when you get to be your dad's age . . .

Yes--my son will be home for Christmas. I jsut picked him up from a party last night so he wouldn't drive drunk and I just took him to work (his car--my old car--is at work--we left it there last night). I'm too enabling to my kids.

Anyway--good luck with it all. I lost my parents 3 years ago. I CANNOT tell you how much I wish I done some things different--not many as I was never rebellious--but now they are gone and there are no do-overs.

This shows an appalling level of assumptiveness about a whole slice of humanity as well as insensitivity toward fellow exmos in need of understanding. Some college students are arrogant as these posters were. However, most are not.

You are in a bind. I'm sorry and wish I could offer surefire solutions.

Your father does work hard for his family benefits but doesn't work any harder to keep you on his dental insurance than he will if he drops you. This is extortion. It's about control, nothing more or less.

Unfortunately, he can remove you from his insurance and further damage chances of a reconciliation and there isn't much you can do about it.

My parents were deadset against my going to college. They thought I wasn't smart or competent enough to finish and that girls didn't need to be educated. This, in spite of the fact that they took much of my teenage babysitting money and sent it to help an older TBM sister away at college.

Fair? No.

Unfortunately, TBMs can be blinded by their faith. They can be hurtful, self defeating, and vengeful.

We can't change them. All we can do is stay true to our dreams and be as ethical and fair as possible.

I suggest you try to move the dental surgery forward if you can. Or if it's feasable, do it when you have your own insurance.

You could also suck up to your dad's unreasable demands. We all had to do that as kids and sometimes we must do it as adults until we're totally self sufficient.

Good luck. I'm proud of you for getting a good education in spite of the situation. Don't give up.

It is NOT unreasonable to discuss insurance coverage with a dependent that's a legal adult, especially if said coverage dependent is not currently living in the house. In fact - it's the responsible thing to do, particularly if deductibles and coverages are changing with the new policy. It is not extortion, particularly if the deductibles are changing on January 1st. And from professional knowledge - many. plans. are.

It is not manipulation to state "I'm not going to keep payign for you" if said dependent wants nothing to do with the family. Again - the student can't have it both ways. Either (s)he is a dependent, using the family insurance, or (s)he isn't, and strikes out alone.

It's not presumptive - it's common sense.

And yes - the "I know the policy and blah blah blah" was arrogant. If the parents claim the college on medical insurance, the kid's a dependent for tax purposes, too.

There's no proof that the parents' comments in that email aren't valid and the student isn't just unyielding to anything the parent says, either.

The implied manipulation or extortion was the requirement that they meet IN PERSON to discuss, rather than via email or on the phone.

Sure, they guy is trying to get to see his son any way he can, but making continuation of coverage contingent upon a face-to-face meeting is manipulative.

Thank you so much for the positive motivation it means a lot (Cheryl)!



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 12/19/2011 02:22PM by cskawi.

This is how it sounds to me with the limited info that I have just from the email he sent. He doesn't care about the insurance at all. He wants to see you and he loves you and he resents you cutting him off as your dad all rolled in to one package. He wants things to be better and when you aren't there for Christmas he recognizes the void. He sometimes thinks it's his fault but sometimes thinks it's yours and so he loves and resents simultaneously.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 12/19/2011 12:06PM by suckafoo.

Yep, this is exactly what I see from the email.

He wants to talk. He admits they say things that hurt, but also reminds that the kid does too.

I think your father is a piece of work.
He is trying to blackmail you into acceding to his wishes by holding this dental insurance over you, especially since he knows you need it for your upcoming surgery.

If this is an indication of what you have had to deal with in the past I don't blame you for keeping your distance.

Posters who have never experienced people like your father simply do not understand how difficult it is to interact with such parents.

You would be crazy to go home for Christmas under such circumstances.

See what you can do to get yourself totally independent. If your father won't budge about the insurance and the tax write off I'd say write him off. Good parents do not treat their children in such shabby ways.

Thanks for the reply that kind of sums it up for how I feel.

Thanks for the replies so far. Sorry for some missunderstanding. I have had contact with my sister she is only 15 and i try to talk to her with leaving my parents out of the situation. The reason I have chosen to ignore my parents while I am in college is because of the abuse verbally and emotionally. I have tried to set boundries over and over and they only last for a small time before they are ignored. They have used their tax information and insurance as a way to manipulate me to come home. I have gone home because of their manipulation and it gets me nowhere. There has been some horrible toxic things said the past three years and I have decided to ignore them. I have gone as far to go with them to salt lake city for christmas to see tbm relatives just to prove that I am trying to have a relationship. I am tired of the cycle.

Thank you guys for the ideas with financial aid. I have talked to the financial aid head advisor at my school and there is already a file over the situation. Unfortunately they said they cannot do much because this is a religous matter. There basicaly has to be a police report of abuse for anything to go foreward.

As for the arogant college student thing, that is what every tbm I know says to every kid that has chosen to go to school and leave the church. If by arrogant college student who works and goes to school full time and pays for all my bills and tuition on my own and left a toxic cult enviroment at the age of 18 then yes I am proud to say I am a arrogant college student. Yes I did my research and know the policy and information and how it works. I understand why he wants to meet by the 21 st. The only thing that I havent paid for is the health and dental insurance. The reason was my parents told me it did not cost them anything extra and there would be no point in me geting my own. As a adult I've already have had this dicussion with them. I have the funds to get my own insurance and then they have nothing to hold over my head.
The reason I posted is I keep trying and it is the same cycle over and over. I wanted any adivice anyone might have on drawing the line with your families in this situation. Having to put up with their manipulative bs is a distraction with school.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 12/19/2011 01:31PM by cskawi.

...what sorts of things do they say to you that feel abusive?

Well some of the things have been that I am choosing to go to hell. They have called my fiancee basically a whore. They have told me over and over that I can't do it that they have tried working and going to school and it wont happen. My mother has told me she worked and was in a apartment in college and couldn't do it so I am just setting up myself for failure. All through high school I was told that church was far more important than grades. I was constantly isolated from friends and struggled to have any friends outside of the church. A lot of it just your tbm mormon stuff but it really messes you up when you have to interact in the real world.

Especially if it comes in a constant barrage. I would anticipate comments that they are going to say and come up with snappy responses. Here are some possibilities:

> Well some of the things have been that I am choosing to go to hell.
"Come visit. Bring sunscreen." If the parent keeps pounding away at it, add to your list. "Oh, and a towel." "Don't forget your bathing suit. It doesn't have to be modest." etc. If your parent gets frustrated and tells you to stop, say you'll stop when he or she will. Basically just refuse to take your parent seriously.

> They have called my fiancee basically a whore.
"It seems like the only ugliness is coming from your mouth." or, "You're looking in a mirror."

> They have told me over and over that I can't do it that they have tried working and going to school and it won't happen.
"Okay."

> My mother has told me she worked and was in a apartment in college and couldn't do it so I am just setting up myself for failure.
"Okay."

I would tell Dad point blank that if he wants to drop you from his insurance, that's fine, but then this will have to be the last year he claims you as a tax deduction.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 12/19/2011 05:10PM by summer.

Hate to tell you this but it will always be extremely difficult to draw the line with parents who do not recognize boundaries.

In fact, don't be surprised if they hit you up for financial support as they get older. They will feel you "owe" it to them as their child.

I remember one person telling me how his non-supportive and abusive father got in touch with him after he got his engineering degree.
The reason? Said father wanted now to "manage" the son's money. This after the son had to work at 7/11s to put himself through school.

With some parents, you just gotta shrug your shoulders and walk away.

I wasn't in any way arrogant at that age. Rather, I felt simply felt very very alone trying to scrape money together, keep up my studies, and sort through confusion over leaving a mindcontrolling cult with no help or understanding from anyone.

You're right, TBMs and many others like to assume that parents kindly and supportive and are necessarily more reasonable more reasonable than exmo kids. This judgemental attitude is just one more burden that a possibly forlorn and striving teens and young adults must suffer alone.

Strange that those who leave the morg in their later years sometimes feel so superior to those who were able to saw through it as kids.

I can see no reason other than manipulation for a parent to remove a child in school from their healthcare. Keeping them on the plan doesn't add a minute's work or an added cent of expense. The only reason would be perhaps if the parent wanted to retire or downgrade insurance coverage during open enrolement perhaps to free up money for something like a tax shelter. If something like this were the motive, I would think there'd be hints of it in the email.

1. If your father has you on his dental coverage, you are entitled to use it.
2. If you father wants to take you off of his coverage then that is his privilege.
3. Someone who would threaten to cut off your insurance if you don't meet with him face to face when he knows you don't want to is a person I would NOT meet with face to face.
4. Witty's idea about trying to move up the wisdom tooth thing sounds like a good idea.

Tell them you won't come home because you will be too busy working, so that you can get your own dental insurance.lol.

+1 thanks lol

yeah - haha- that would be really helpful to resolve things - NOT!!!! That is an arrogant in your face attitude IMO.

I believe it was to be taken as more of a joke than actual advice to say to my parents in the situation. There is a difference in heartfelt advice and just trying to lighten the mood of the situation. Thank you for the post Leah it made me laugh which helps tremendously.

You need a face to face meeting. No question about it.

You can't have it both ways.

Either you are totally independent, or you are dependent on your family.

If you need to be dependent on the family, then buck up, and play nice-nice until you can be totally independent.

Set some ground rules. It helps to have some expectations on both ends. Be respectful. Be gracious, and grateful.

I'm surprised they didn't cut you off completely if you refuse to call your father: Dad. That would be the end of it all if I was your parent. I don't put up with that.

I understand the reasoning of dropping me and that isn't my concern. I am independent of everything else and can get my own insurance if I need to. The only reason I haven't is they asked me not to because the was no point and it did not cost them anything. I have no problem with them dropping me from the insurance. The part that continues to bother me is they use whatever they can to be manipulative about it with the church. As with the dad thing my reasoning about it was where was my dad when I was at athletics and band competitions? He was at church. Or when I need extra help with studying ? Or when I would of liked some father son time that didn't have to do with church priesthood meetings? I never had a relationship with him because he was always in some stake presidency calling or bishopric calling. He is trying so hard to follow in his GA fathers footsteps. He chose not to have time with his family. The church took that away from me and it is not something that I can just let go. I asked him over and over to stop with the church stuff and just be a regular dad and spend time that wasn't involved with church. A father is someone who will be there for their kid no matter what their religion or beliefs are and its love unconditionally. Unfortunately for many kids that are/were trapped in the church their parents love was or is conditional.



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 12/19/2011 02:49PM by cskawi.

Actually you CAN just let it go of it and choose to move forward. I can certainly understand your feelings of abandonment and feeling like you came last - especially to the church. However, holding on the the resentment will only serve to hurt you and him going forward. You can't change the past, but you can certainly build a better future. Forgiving does NOT mean that you are saying whatever happened in the past is ok nor are you condoning it. If you could have a relationship with your parents that was healthy would you do it? This is where a counselor can come in handy - for both of you.

Good natured parents of this board, please realise that by identifying with the parents of cskawi, you are aligning yourself with abusers.

Of course we only have one side of the conversation. But are we here to support exmos or TBMs?

Do not project your own situations onto this particular situation that is unique to cskawi.


Attaining your true independence is a struggle. The manipulation that is an integral part of mormonism just adds to difficulty. Especially when the parents are the sort of near-fundy types that I and many here have. I know a lot of posters have said that people must be exaggerating, but cskawi mentions "struggling to have any friends outside of church". Echoes of the old mindset of associating only with members.
Be glad you were never taught this, if you think I'm kidding.

In spite of being the age of the harsh accusatory father, I relate to the college student and realize I'm doing a bit of projecting myself. You're right we are here to support exmos and their recovery. A stranger on the internet has no right to tell some college kid when or if they must forgive some TBM parent. In fact that's piling on more of the same kind of TBM mind control that we're trying to work through.

They told you at first that they didn't mind that you used their insurance and now all of the sudden they do. I think they need to give you your space and leave it be. Let you use the insurance. You are obviously upset. I don't like the control they are still trying to subject upon you(made me ill to read those lines).

You are an adult and you obviously are hurt by the way you grew up....due to a powerful controlling cult. I feel the same way. I haven't been "home" for over two years and don't plan to for a while. I think that my relationship with my overly Mormon family members is just going to be surfacey and pleasant from now on. My family is super fake to my face trying to show me how happy the church makes them. I am starting my new life and I am engaged also. They should treat you with more respect. I would just distance yourself.

Personally I wouldn't take the title dad away from my dad no matter what (they are brainwashed) but that's just me. I liked what Cheryl wrote. Try and take the higher road at all costs. I let my family know that I am very hurt and want nothing to do with the Mormon church.