snippet of conversation with tbm SIL. SIL: "So there's this sister in our ward that has just been diagnosed with ALS. She is such an inspiration. She has 5 kids under the age of 12. Divorced, ( in a whispered voice- pornography addiction!!!). When you are diagnosed, ssi/ disability is automatically approved. This wonderful sister always speaks of her tithing blessings. Especially during hard times. What an example she is. I can't even imagine how hard it must be for her. she's losing her house on top of it! The ward helps with rides, babysitting and yardwork, but can only do so much. So sad, but what an inspirational woman!"
Me: "Wait. She's paying tithing on her disability check?"
And, "Her house is being foreclosed on, but the church can only do so much?" SIL: "Well"......................crickets....
Me: baffled, uncomfortable silence.
The tunnel vision of tbm never ceases to amaze me. Tscc can build a $5 billion dollar condo/mall development, buy tommie a $900000 car, and rake in approx 7 billion dollars a year on tithing, yet the most they can do to help this woman is give rides to church, babysit during medical appointments, mow the lawn, and provide spiritual and emotional support?!? Wow. Wow. Wow. I just can't.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 08/14/2012 03:41PM by ambivalent exmo.
Silence is powerful. That and your shocked face could have been just the perfect response this time. Unless you are a drag queen, less really is more sometimes.
With all the articles out right now about TSCC finances and tithing income, someone should go to the media with this, even if by identifying just the ward without giving any names. Maybe it would get enough public outrage going to shame them into giving her some financial help.
EDIT: If you want to get a letter writing campaign going on this woman's behalf, straight to her Bishop, I'm in.
Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 08/14/2012 03:42PM by inmoland.
inmoland Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > With all the articles out right now about TSCC > finances and tithing income, someone should go to > the media with this. Maybe it would get enough > public outrage going to shame them into giving her > some financial help.
inmoland Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > With all the articles out right now about TSCC > finances and tithing income, someone should go to > the media with this, even if by identifying just > the ward without giving any names. Maybe it would > get enough public outrage going to shame them into > giving her some financial help. > > > EDIT: If you want to get a letter writing campaign > going on this woman's behalf, straight to her > Bishop, I'm in.
+100000 also, absolutely sick and deplorable and stories like these should definitely be made more public. sounds like this poisonous cult could definitely do with a modern day Robin Hood. my heart goes out to the poor woman, at the very least she ought to get a refund on all she's contributed to those $!@#$holes in SLC.
They take tithing from her disability check? - SHAME ON THE LDS CHURCH
No assistance from the church coffers? - WHAT KIND OF CHURCH IS THIS?
Rides, babysitting and mowing the lawn? - SHAME ON THE LDS CHURCH AND GOOD FOR THE MEMBERS WHO ARE LEAST DOING THIS FOR THE LADY.
HOWEVER, This is all done by the already overworked and donations-taken members of the ward. They way the lds church operates there is nothing to assist those in need or the poor, nothing, other than whatever more the members of a given ward can provide. Even though they have been dried up of most of the available resources already, through tithing and free labour.
And for those that will come up with the line 'why should members expect help' or 'those welfare free-loaders', I'll say that churches, regular churches that is, help people, not only their own but the poor and the needy.
President Monson is on record as having declared something like..."If you don't have enough money to put food on the table...tythe, if you cannot afford to go to the doctor...tythe..and lots of other things which I find quite upsetting and insulting since I have to live on a Disability pension that does not even cover my needs let alone my "wants" when one of the priests recently spent $7000 on a holiday at seaside and thought nothing of it...wonder what he pays every week in his tything envelope? I am sure it would be sufficient to make up for what I cannot possibly give. I put to him two examples from the Bible on giving temple tax. Jesus pointing out to his apostles the poor widow who put her poor penny in the jar when it was all she had as opposed to the priests who put in of their excess....and Jesus' response to Peter's question" Do we have to pay taxes to Cesar as well?" Jesus is said to have asked one of his followers to give him a coin. Jesus asked:"Whose image is on this money?" The apostles replied: "Cesar's!" Jesus replied..."Give to Cesar what is Cesar's and to God what is God's". My question was...is God's image on our money? Do we then insult God by giving Him something that man has made to enslave other men, that does not belong to Him, that he would not expect the poor to give...that's if God is Love... and does God want our money irrespectively...or is it somebody else who wants it who is using God as their sheild? My next questions were: How do we know what belongs to God and what belongs to..'Cesar' and does God in the Bible (believe it or don't), not command us on the positive side of the 5th Commandment (don't kill) to - "take proper care of our own health and life..."? And would we be disobeying the Commandment if we, nonsensically, gave away all that, (be it so meagre), which we need to sustain ourselves and those dependent on us? Will the church pay my mortgage and put food on my table when I cannot? Will that priest who spent all that money having fun come around and take my wife to the doctor when I cannot? I am baptised but that is all, I just wanted to see what miracles they work that others cannot and learn about the evils that people perpetrate on each other in God's name...for a book...Hell will freeze over before I pay my pension to maintain a temple recommend...I see it as blackmail...'you won't get to go to heaven if you don't tythe, you won't have your barn overflowing with abundance so much that you'll have to build another barn to contain it all...you won't get to go to the highest heaven and live with Heavenly Father...( and on this point I wonder where Heavenly Mother is in all this...at least the RCs say that when God closes the gate on you she lets you in by the window! I'm not convinced of any of it...although I do believe that Faith is about hoping for things we cannot see and I've heard say that Faith and disbelief cannot live in the same mind...so I must be out of my mind persisting in trying to reconcile these contradictions. Not supposed to understand? Well then, why are we given the ability to reason...and so on and so on...If it doesn't make sense in my estimation, there is no sense. If you are burdened by the weight of tything, don't do it! Nobody really knows what's at the end of life do they? One thing though...I am in admiration of all those whose faith belies reason and whose enthusiasm for their faith leads them on to great works...THAT I do accept! Faith...any kind of faith, if it is unswerving, CAN move mountains! Everyone is capable of it...each just has to find their own spark...that's what I think. The rest is all very interesting but if it doesn't make you enthusiastic its not for you - simple!
Just want to say 2 things and then I'll let everyone bash me, but I won't care because I'll never stumble upon this website again.
A. After the 1989 Loma Prieta Earthquake, the LDS Church covered the tens of thousands of dollars of difference between what FEMA would pay for our red tagged house to be demolished and replaced with a new one and what it actually cost and never asked for anything from my father who was and is inactive.
B. The Church paid my rent when I was out of work for an entire year, and never asked for anything (and I had been inactive for 17 years).
C. Knowing that I am out of work again, and typically too proud to ask for help, the Bishop has approached me numerous times to offer help and asked for nothing in return.
That is where tithing goes. You can sit here and say that it's being put into people's pockets, or that it's pointless and evil, but I have personally seen it save and change lives on numerous occasions, and while some Bishops in some wards will strongarm people into paying their tithing, this is very much a matter of personal policy, and not Church policy. Beware that you are not confusing the two, as they are very very different. Even a prophet can make this mistake and many of them have.
There is a lot of just blind hate in this forum, and knowing how evil some people can be, I can understand. I see it in my own ward every Sunday. People suck. Don't lose sight of the afterlife you deserve because of stupid evil people. That's not saying come back to the Church, just saying this can't be making you happy, and if your life isn't happy, then what's the point? Find some happiness! I wish you peace and love.
The examples you cite have nothing to do with tithing; they were paid for with fast offering funds. The difference is that the local bishop has a lot of latitude when it comes to disbursing fast offering funds.
Tithing funds are not subject to any form of local control and are not used for charitable endeavors, such as the ones you described.
Some bishops are wonderful. Others are evil. Which kind you get depends more on luck than anything else.
I will say that encouraging/demanding (heck... allowing!) an unemployed ALS victim, who is losing her home, to fork over 10% of her assistance payments into the church's coffers is financial and spiritual abuse. It's evil.
That is an excellent illustration of christian charity, in this case from the mormon church.
I will point out, however, that my brother works in the COB, and to quote him, people that receive assistance "...should do at least a little something in return."
While I agree that someone getting a handout should return the favor if they are able, the problem with the LDS church is that it's a corporation first, and expects some remuneration, because...it's a corporation.
Not Whining Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > ...this is very much a matter of personal > policy, and not Church policy. Beware that you > are not confusing the two, as they are very very > different.
Interesting, because that's *exactly* what YOU did. As ECE points out below, none of the things you mentioned had to do with tithing, and they were all at the local bishop's discretion (who may very well have been a heck of a guy). But "the church" didn't pay anything to you. Your local bishop did, out of his discretionary funds.
So let me ask you straight out: what made you and your father more "worthy" of assistance than a woman with ALS who's losing her home? Hmm? Do you feel especially "blessed" to have been oh-so-specially chosen to receive help, and feel no compassion whatsoever for this "sister" who clearly isn't as worthy as you?
It's really wonderful to see that the rich boys in SLC who get so called modest incomes that made them rich care so much for the poor and needy members. As a us army veteran...service connected disability ....single mother my bishop gave me the lovely experience and of becoming homeless the winter of2014. We were homeless for 6 months untill my son's disability kicked in. Sadly people forget women are veterans too. While there are many programs to assist homeless veterans...most are for male veterans. Random, sporadic homelessness is an occupational hazard for veterans. The church news wrote a beautiful piece on the East Bay homeless veterans project...but they can't be bothered to help out their own homeless female veterans, nor do they care to prevent sister veterans...or any other vets that wont generate a look how nice we are spotlight on the church...from becoming homeless. Final salute now gets my little pennies and anything else I can manage to make and send my sisters in arms. Funny thing is....would any of the fat cats in the first presidency, the 12 or the 70 be free to run tscc how they want...to amass such vast sums and live in their million dollar properties...yes plural...if it were not for the service members who Give up so much...even their lives...to keep the freedoms we enjoy? They can give so much to the so called refugees...but ignore their own veterans...... especially the female ones.
You know, I very rarely get to brag on the Catholic Church because...well, because it's the Catholic Church. But reading this reminded me that recently, when our Parish expanded the size of our parking lot and parish hall, the diocese bought three houses right behind the church because we needed that land. They were older houses but still pretty solid and while we were trying to decide what to do with them, we had some wildfires in the area (I live in Northeast Oklahoma). The parish donated all three of those houses to people who lost their homes in the fires--paid to have the houses moved to where the families wanted them, set them up, and deeded them over. None of the families were Catholic, but all of them were uninsured and lost everything in the fires. When I see stories like this one, about the woman with ALS losing her home, I think about those families and I think...sometimes religion gets it right. Not often, but sometimes.
I used to live in the Baltimore area and there are Catholic charities all over the place. They operate battered women's shelters, education for the homeless, soup kitchens.
There is no attempt to convert people beyond occasional prayers.
I was envious of those charities when I would drive by, nothing like it in TSCC.
I think they do a good job during disaster relief, I'll give them that, but so do other churches and government agencies. The church also makes a publicity statement out of them with their yellow shirts. I hate their internal welfare programs. If you want cash assistance or food you normally have to grovel before the bishop and agree to conditions (tithing/church attendance/callings) before they will give you anything.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 09/05/2013 09:45AM by David Jason.
Of course the vile celestial scum in SL don't force anyone to pay tithing. It's s freewill offering - my ass! The psychological blsckmail from these mormon devils knows no bounds.
Jerks. When my husband was looking for work we were pulling in next to nothing with unemployment. A previous bishop told us we need not to pay on it at all. New bishop had the nerve to pull us into his office and lectured us about tithing and how the windows of heaven are not fully opened to us because we won't pay. I said "previous bishop told us to not worry about it" and proceeded to tell us that if we want the windows of heaven to be open to us to "help" find work we shall pay a full tithe. And that he'd look forward to that. I look back on that now and cringe. I feel for this woman. The bishop should be saying "hell no I am not taking your money, you need it much more than we do!" Disgusting.
This is so sad. Those five children under 12, and their mother diagnosed with ALS. This family needs help and support. They are already losing their home, and the worst is coming. My dad died with ALS. Can't someone at church intervene for her welfare and the welfare of her children? This needs to go public.
The church made her divorce her husband due to viewing porn and then never lifted a finger to help her and her small children?????
That there is the outrage. Her husband should be at her side, free to watch whatever the hell floats his boat. That would be some good the church can do for her.
So where are her blessings from paying tithing? Tscc always said that blessings mare then you can store will come to you if you pay your tithing. Where are hers? Where are my ex-wife's? Where are the blessing to the million's of members who pay a full tithe and are totally faithful, but lose everything.
My wife passed from ALS six months ago. 8 months prior to that I was looking after her along with the sisters from the ward helping me. The RS President said to me 2 months before Christmas that they could no longer provide help. It was taking too much of the sisters time as they got ready for Thanksgiving and Christmas.
I had to take her to Utah to live with her son and his family until she passed. She was in an excellent ward there.
Then members wonder why our ward went from 350 to 89 in one year.
My thoughts and prayers go out to her and her family as this will be a terrible ending for her before she passes.
"the church" isn't doing a damn thing to help her. Nothing, nada, zip.
There appear to be a few kind people in her ward that are doing a few small (and almost certainly welcome) things to help her. There are, after all, still a few kind people left in mormonism. And good for those people for doing what they're doing.
But "the church" isn't doing a damn thing to help her.
Could there be a legal case? I'm the church lawyers *and* the woman would both say it's strictly voluntary, and it would be a non-starter. Or worse, she could be looked at for fraud.
I just finished reading "Troublemaker" by Leah Remini, which is about the "Church" of Scientology, which she has now, thankfully, left behind. I'm just thinking, reading this thread, that maybe the LDS church could borrow (at a low interest rate, of course) enough $$ from the Church of Scientology to help this woman--pay off her house, whatever she needs. Apparently the church of Scientology and the LDS church feel very similar about taking from the needy and providing for the greedy, and after reading "Troublemaker," I'm willing to bet that the Scientologists could probably buy out Salt Lake City, and half of Utah and never miss the money. None of this is apropos to this poor lady's situation, of course, but for the love of Pete, what IS it with these churches who are big--make that HUGE--on the "take" and so very, very light on the "give"? What's UP with that???
1. Not using birth control is great for helping bring many many precious spirits into the home so they don't have to be born into wicked families that don't have the temple blessings and who engage in gross iniquities like drinking green tea.
2. Leaving 5 younger siblings, mostly toddlers, at home with the eldest child, age 8, for 3 hours can be stressful. But knowing that Heavenly Father is watching over them while we do temple assignments is a great blessing. I suppose it could be nice to take the kids to the Temple nursery so that DCFS doesn't get called. However its hard to find people to staff the Temple nursery and its only there for people who were converts (or not worthy) while getting temple-sealed and shouldn't be abused for those of us who are cleaning the holy temples or performing important responsibilities such as temple sessions. Anyway its such a blessing and strengthening of testimonies whenever DCFS doesn't take the kids away. Sure it would be nice to hire a babysitter. But that money is needed for tithing.
3. Oh what a joy it tis to go tracting out the neighbors with the full-time missionaries and some Books of Mormon and the 6 little kids along. "Hi, we are from the Lord's true church. Can we come in and share a message that will bring peace into your home?" Of course the neighbors are excited to finally hear the message they've been waiting to hear for all eternity as they think of these 6 wonderful young spirits sitting so reverently in their living room full of very expensive vases and other worldly decorations they have accumulated there because they have been selfishly hoarding worldly possession instead of consecrating everything to be managed by the beloved Brethren.
4. Its so sad how burdensome and heavy the load can be on the bank accounts of people when they don't give the Lord his share of tithing, fast offerings, missionary fund, PEF, and other donations.
5. I know we're supposed to not do our alms before men so hopefully nobody looks at any of the huge number of web pages and news articles about anytime we do some small service projects with those yellow Helping Hands shirts. The real miracle of service is the blessing of getting home in knowing that despite the house being a wreck, lots of owees for the toddlers, and the 8 year old being a super stressed out babysitter that DCFS never came because the Lord was watching over the house in lieu of spending the Lord's tithing moneys while the adults are gone doing service in those yellow shirts.
6. It's such a blessing how the Brethren are able to concentrate on feeling the Spirit thanks to the ample living allowances and other perks they get to help them ease their minds about worldly matters and focus on building up the Kingdom. You should hear some of the inspiring messages they give that really effectively help remind us what worthless turds we are because we aren't doing enough to build up the Kingdom. Oh how racked with despair we should be over the fact that we still haven't gotten our genealogy work done. Surely in the spare 30 hours left each week there must be some time to start setting aside to finally start working on that one missing name on our 8 generation chart and many more on the 9th and 10th generations. Oh how sad for those long-dead relatives having to suffer in Spirit Prison because I haven't found them yet. Luckily I suppose at 11:30pm tonight I could try but got to remember to be up at 3am being alert and attentive (or else be a sinner for violating that rule) when headed over to the temple for a session before doing carpool for early morning Seminary. The next day definitely won't work as there will be no time for even any sleep. But the day after the day after that will have 5 hours so perhaps some time for genealogy.
It's so wonderful how the church gives us such peace/rest/happiness in lives and all the things it does to help us fill up every hour of our day/night on being Kingdom-focused.
Just yesterday, some nevermo-s were telling that they loved how family focused to the Mormons were. I told them that they talk family all day every day, but the reality is that kids are neglected so that adults can do hours and hours of service and meetings. I told them that my nine year old brother was my babysitter for three hours--I was six and we both had the measles with high fevers.
Your post hit every nail. Family friendly church my ass.