I loved the thread on ah ha moments. Here are two of mine.

1: Primary. Reading about how Joseph Smith lost the plates. I remember thinking, "How convenient. Claim that something outlandish exists, then when people ask for proof, claim that God took it back."

Does anybody remember the original Terminator? Sarah Connor is trying to describe Reese's story to the cops. They think it's brilliant, especially since it was so far out and it required no proof. It was years later, but the two experiences were connected in my mind.

Joseph Smith's story required no proof. God told him what to do. And he was all alone in the grove. The angel with the flaming sword told him to sleep around. None of this is provable. You must take it all on faith, and your worth as a member depends on the amount of faith you have. Hmmm...

Can you say "conflict of interest?" That's good, because it leads to the next experience.

2: 1st year of law school. We were discussing how to separate facts from emotions. For example, a convicted sex offender is on trial for molesting a child, and everybody wants to see him hang. But the evidence is only circumstantial at best. What do you do? Do you let emotion take over and hang him because he probably got away with something in the past, even if he didn't do it this time, it will make the family of the victim feel better. Or do you examine the facts which, in this case, just don't show enough to result in a conviction?

That was a big moment for me. Up until then, I had only evaluated religion on emotion. I finally had a new way to look at things. It no longer mattered that my mother and my grandmother were going to freak out of I left, that I'd get a guilt trip for "turning my back on my heritage" or "breaking my temple covenants."

What mattered at that point is that everything I had read pointed to the Mormon religion being a fraud. Not only that, I found Mormons annoying. A very wise man once told me to pay attention to what made me happy. Well, Mormonism did not make me happy. Not to mention, my wife hated church. And you know what they say, "Happy wife, happy life."

So everything converged and I resigned. Actually, there were many other little experiences along the way, but these two were some of the biggest.

Polygamy sparked my interest enough to start my reading frenzy, but it took a few Ah Ha moments to remove all hope that it might be true. The three main pillars of my testimony (BofM, 1st vision and JS) crumbled as follows:

- I found out that the witnesses to the BofM later admitted that they only saw the plates with their "spiritual eyes".

- Someone pointed out that contemporary testimonies of the 1st vision by Brigham Young, any of JS's family members or any of the early church members don't exist.

- I read a comment (perhaps on this board) that you can tell a con-man or wicked leader by the fact that they will use their influence to get three things: money, power and sex.
- Law of consecration to a the church for which he was Trustee in Trust
- Besides prophet, seer and revelator, he made himself Lieutenant General and was ordained King of the world.
- Polygamy

Instead of Ah Ha, they were more like "Oh, crap! moments.

"A View To A Kill" starring Roger Moore.

This makes me want to watch that movie again with new eyes!

I think I have shared this before but here are my two Ah Ha Moments that brought me to truly search on the Internet and ‘stumble’ ;-) upon Bob McCue’s page that brought me to consult other sites and ended up discovering RfM. (Hurray!!)

The first thing was that I was watching a dvd of Midsomer Murder, and CDI Barnaby was telling his detective-Sergeant about how he thought the things had went on about a particular murder as they were trying to get out from an old wine cellar where they had been locked in by the murderer or his/her accomplice.

Anyways, at one point he says, "And you know there is nothing like a little bit of truth to sell the biggest lies." And for some reason, at that moment Joseph Smith's face and name came very clearly in my eyes and my ears. And I say “in” because it was as if they both had been placed in front of my eyes and in my ears but like inside of me. You know, like it had come from without and within me at the same time. … Very difficult to describe.

The second thing was when I was dusting a bookcase and I stopped at my ‘spiritual’ shelf and just picked up the Institute Student Manual and open it at random.
It happened to be the explanation of the first verses of D&C 95 verses 1-6 (June 1833) where the ‘saints’ are chastened for their failure to build the house of the Lord.
It is directly related to section 88 in which ‘the lord’ ask the ‘saints’ to build him a house of prayer, of order, etc.

Now if you look at the dates, 88 happens 6 months previously (end-Dec. 1832)

So, ‘the lord’ just freaks out because a small group of people, most of them poor, during the winter, have not started to do the actual building of the ‘temple’. That is when I realised that ‘the lord’ of D&C was as awful as ‘the god’ of the OT. I realized I did not need such a pathetic horrible god in my life. (And of course I wondered how come I had never seen this before!)

I knew that BY had many wives, I just couldn't remember how many so I went to the BY manual (I can't remember exactly what it was called or if the church still uses them...) and it said that he had 2 wives. That he remarried after his first wife died....no mention of polygamy at all.

So here is the manual that I am supposed to use to learn about the prophets and the church is omitting important information...What else was being "omitted?"

The temple was a huge ah-ha moment. Seeing my family and relatives in the ridiculous get ups and learning secret handshakes that the BoM repeatedly warns against. Wow hypocrisy.

The final one was sincerly fasting, reading my scriptures and praying for some strength to my testimony when my inner voice quite clearly said to me "You're talking to yourself." I stopped mid prayer and that was it. No God, no prophets, no need for any of the lying or bullshit...only the search for truth remained.

The symbolic argument. I was told that I needed to belive in TSSC because of the celestial kingdom and everything else was just window-dressing and all the mo's found out when they came of age. And yes the rituals were borrowed from the masons but the TSSC has changed them significantly. And the truth was in the second priesthood and those who ruled over us.

And I discovered that the celestial kingdom was a metaphor for polygamy and many mo's did not know it was all fake. And that the masonic rituals had not been significantly changed they had been sanitized and the fun stuff omitted over the years.

And the second priesthood was not where the symbolism ended it was where the really wiggyv stuff began. Yet, I couldn't belive the things I had been told about the second priesthood it was so strange.

And one day a senior mo started talking about the rituals he was undergoing. And he used language I had been warned he would use, exact quotes. And I realized TSSC had nothing beyond symbolism. It's a rudderless ship.

When I exed myself I was asked to come back many times and I didn't se the point, there is more spiritual truth looking through a seeing stone into a muddy puddle than in the entire SSC.

JS polyandry sank my boat. Everything I put on a shift at that point made perfect sense! Yes, it's all bs!

The more I blatantly and egregiously lied, the more the enlightened leaders at the branch/ward level and stake level ate it up and let their guard down with me. It was as if they were saying, "aha! Here's a young man who GETS it! He ain't strugglin' for no inner peace or truth--he wants to play and win this game! THAT'S what we want out of a leader!"

flyboy21 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> The more I blatantly and egregiously lied, the
> more the enlightened leaders at the branch/ward
> level and stake level ate it up and let their
> guard down with me. It was as if they were
> saying, "aha! Here's a young man who GETS it! He
> ain't strugglin' for no inner peace or truth--he
> wants to play and win this game! THAT'S what we
> want out of a leader!"

I've had two freinds go straight up the ladder with the morg.

Both times they came to me filled with conflict and asked is it all a lie? And I replied yes it is. And once the conflict is out of the way they plunge head first into the depths of morg leadership.

I admit knowing it is all a lie does make it easier to surf the waves of the morridor. That was one of my morg jobs. I was told as soon as possible it's all a lie everybody is in on it. Not everybody is in on it. Not the tithing mom and pop mo with 7 children and two mortgages they don't know.

Decisions do become a lot easier based and analytical data. In other networking systems however, belief is not a liability it's a sign of compassion.

So many Aha moments:

Elaine Pagel's book "The Origin of Satan" was an eye opener because I found out that the Jews had no term for a devil, and every adversary in the old testament is an angel sent from God. That was interesting.

Another Aha moment was the story on the Tanner's website about the lawyer turned archeologist (I used to know his name)who searched for decades for proof of the Book of Mormon, and how he admitted that there is not one bit of evidence on the ground that supports the BOM.

Another was the story of the Book of Abraham by Larson. What a story! How could I have been ignorant for so long!

I read about the Missouri War, and how Marsh was disgusted with the actions of raiding Galatin and other towns nearby, and he was run out of town. His affidavit that supposedly was all lies was all truths! Who would have imagined!

I read the minutes of every High Counci meeting in Missouri where Marsh supposedly made a big deal of milk strippings, and took the issue all the way to the first presidency. Not a reference in any of the minutes, and they were full of details. So the whole story of him leaving the church because of that dispute is bogus. It is in every manual we have!

Finally, I looked up the Nauvoo Expositor and read it for myself. I had already read Linns history of the LDS and Brodie's book, but never thought to look at the source document. Not a lie to be found!

It took a boatload of Aha moments before I finally had the courage to ask the obvious question: Is it possible that the church is not what it claims to be? The answer to that question was the biggest Aha moment of all.

The lawyer/FBI agent that moonlighted as an archaeologist was Thomas Ferguson, founder of the New World Archaeological Foundation. Funny how his desire to prove the BoM is one of the most damning arguements against it...

Be careful what you wish for.

Saul: Where did you read all the high council meeting minutes from Missouri? I'd love to get my hands on those to show to doubters...

For me it was the masons, and my lack of knowledge of the masons and the temple.

I was really shocked to learn this. From there I thought, what else don't I know? It was all down hill from there.

Now I just feel screwed up like you wouldn't believe. But I am told this too shall pass.

The biggest among many: The character of Joseph Smith and how they lie about it.

History Channel's Secrets of the Founding Fathers. I learned about Freemasonry symbols. While watching the t.v. program, I realized that Freemasonry symbols were also on Mormon temples and my garments! After some research, I saw the similarity between the Freemason's initiation ritual and the Mormon's endowment ceremony. It's really creepy.

I was on USU campus in Logan, UT conducting some business near the printing center and there was a display for a book printed by Utah State University Press of the journals of Joseph Smith's wives. I only knew about Emma and was shocked. There were photo copies from parts of these journals that showed the stories of these women written in their own handwriting. I was stunned. Where had this information been all these years? This opened the flood gates of wanting to know all the history of Mormonism of which I had never been aware. I became enthralled with learning as much about the history of Mormonism as possible. Well, I think you all know where that led me. To stay a Mormon means to stay ignorant.

Had I stayed in Illinois I might still be a Mormon to this day.

You mean Smith was a Mason?

Yup. A 33-degree one who got kicked out of the Nauvoo Masonic Lodge once the Masons discovered his clumsy theft of their oh-so-special secrets that he used to concoct his own cheap imitation.

Say it ain't so, Joe!

It is so, Mo. Wanna keep on givin' 'em your dough?
_____


That's what did it for me, historically.



Edited 5 time(s). Last edit at 10/19/2012 01:29AM by steve benson.

"Book of Mormon is the most correct book on Earth".

But, the Book of Mormon has a LOT of mistakes!

That little tiny bit sealed the deal for me.

But the "aha" moment that started me questioning came one evening after the ward Christmas party. A lady in the ward had come up to me and asked me if I would bear testimony in RS the next day.

Testimony bearing had always been a sore spot for me. I had never felt like I could do it because I didn't know if I had one. I had had two occasions in my 34 years when I felt could say I KNEW the church was true, and it had been many years since the previous time.

So I told her I would think about it. (But not WHY I needed to think about it). I went home, holed myself up in my bedroom, and thought long and hard about what I could say that would sound like a testimony, but would be honest.

After at least an hour, it finally dawned on me, that if I couldn't think of anything I could say I KNEW, I didn't HAVE a testimony. And after 34 years, doing whatever was asked of me, believing it all, reading the B of M I-don't-know-how-many times and praying and/or fasting about it, I finally faced the fact that I didn't KNOW. My prayers had NOT been answered. I had NOT been blessed with spirituality or the Holy Ghost.

Ultimately, her request helped me realize that something was wrong, and that I needed to start asking questions.

I heard something about the source of the Book of Abraham being found in the 1060's in the Metro Museum of Art. I quickly learned that it had been empirically proven to be a burial record typical of it's time and NOT what JS claimed it to be... so I looked to the church for an explanation...

The official church leadership remained silent on the matter, and the apologists offered completely lame rationalizations - that was my "ah ha" moment. Pandora's box was opened.

"my self" and "gay" were part and parcel of each other, the rest started to line up on the opposite side of that line in the sand. It was not an easy or welcome discovery at the time, but I'll never regret the decisions I made about it.

in child support of their minor children over the yrs. I was raising them alone------yet they both LIED to their Stk. Pres. and Bishops in order to obtain Temple Recommends------for "show", I can only assume. So much for the theory of "Divine Discernment/Inspiraton" (on their leaders's part). Uh Huh. . .
This reality just for Openers . . .

I had one just the other night. Family is still TBM, but I keep bringing some "little" things up.

Like when reading the "BOM" we read in 3 Nephi chapter 12:

33 And again it is written, thou shalt not forswear thyself, but shalt perform unto the Lord thine oaths;

34 But verily, verily, I say unto you, swear not at all; neither by heaven, for it is God’s throne;

So how is it that we swear by God, angels and these witnesses in the temple?

I was in the bishopric in 1976 when the wife of the high priest group leader brought me "Mormonism-Shadow or Reality" by the Tanners. A local minister that the missionaries had contacted had given it to them and they in turn gave it to her. Each of them was afraid to look at it and they were confident that I, as the resident gospel expert, could refute what was in the book.

I took it and studied it for a couple of hours (in particular, the BOA information) and I was on my way out as a result. I alread had a cog dis shelf and putting that book on it finally broke it.

I still have the book, complete with the inscription from the minister to the missionary: "To my friend, XX, an honest seeker after the truth (and the truth shall set you free)"

I started this original thread. I love hearing everyone's stories.

After reading so many AH-HA stories, it frightens me how much I never thought for myself. I'm either incredibly dumb, simple minded, or never did much thinking for myself.

I think that is one of the main points of modern Mormonism; "Don't think for yourself."

Now that I do think more for myself and have better perspective, I can see how Mormonism fits into collectivism, and authoritarianism. It's the same concept as controlling the masses. You wouldn't want to live in a country that told you how to think, dress and eat. What to read and what not to read. Most of us live in the United States of America, yet as TSCC members we give or have given much of our freedom of choice to a collective, authoritarian society.

Wow, I really use to be a simpleton! Scary!

I didn't think for myself at all. That still bothers me immensely to this day. The only way I can forgive myself is that the second I did take back my brain, I left.

For mormons 'Free Agency' only means you are Free to give up your Agency. I was the poster child of that.

In 1996 I stumbled upon a book about freemasonry in the Library. It had pictures of handshakes and various things that were eerily similar to the temple.

8 years later we go to Kirtland with my wifes parent's. While there I realized just how hated Joe was and how many unethical things he had done. It was in that moment that I allowed myself to say "what if?". The ability to ask "what if?" was liberating. I started to question lots of stuff. After that, my testimony began to unravel.

In early 2005, when additional changes to the temple ceremony were revealed, I googled some things about the temple and that was it! All the thoughts I had from 1996 came back and BAM I was outta there...

Wife, children and I resigned in 2006 on our 20th wedding anniversary. Very symbolic way to leave. No regrets! Love being free!

"Why isn't the Book of Mormon ever on the history channel? They cover parts of the Bible".
Then I read that letter from Smithsonian and that along with Book of Abraham and DNA evidence were among many other questions and doubts. Polygamy though. I could never make it right in my mind and finally knew it couldn't be made acceptable to me. The final clencher was study on the FLDS when they were making news. Young girls forced to marry old ugly men made it impossible for me not to draw a Joseph Smith parallel with Warren Jeffs. my mind didn't stand a chance.



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 10/19/2012 10:55AM by suckafoo.

Prop 22 in California. I guess I just studied Jesus' word too much and when the church came out as the bigoted organization it always has been, I realized that Jesus wouldn't approve of Mormonism at all.

Noah's Ark

Oh, how I wish the Mormons could read this wonderful thread! There is so much sincerity, and genuine feeling! We all have experienced that sense of loss, followed by the peace and satisfaction of knowing the truth, at last. Not an offended one in the bunch.

I, too had a full shelf of cog dis. I never read anything "anti-Mormon", but I studied the scriptures on my own and in SS classes, seminary, BYU, institute, etc. The BOM was the worst book I ever read. The only words that might have been "The Word of God" were the words JS plagiarized from the Bible. I believed in the Bible, so that fooled me for many years.

Spiritually, I felt the absence of unconditional love, and the increasing, blatant absence of Christ in the Mormon church.

My Ah-Ha moment came when I came onto RFM, asking questions about the rules for a temple divorce/cancellation of sealing/temple clearance. The terminology for this kept changing, and the rules kept changing. The man I had been sealed to beat me badly, and I had divorced him on the grounds of extreme physical cruelty, and the thug was still stalking me--but the church didn't care about that. I tried again with each new bishop, and they would say yes, I could have a cancellation of sealing, but then a few months later I would ask again and they would say no I could not have one. My hairdresser got a cancellation in only a few weeks (divorcing a perfectly nice husband), because her father had a high church calling and was a close friend of GBH. Were these God's rules?

When the Stake presidency came over to my house that last time to inform me that I could NEVER get a temple divorce unless I married another Mormon in the temple, they also told me in no uncertain terms that my children (by my second husband, years after the divorce) were also officially, eternally sealed to the wife-beater--I knew this was not God's religion. I felt a flash of anger, quickly followed by a peaceful, grounded inspiration of what I should do: get out of the cult. It was nothing but a man-made cult. My children resigned with me, and that unhappiness is gone from our life.

This was before finding out about all the other lies. What a can of worms!



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 10/19/2012 01:52PM by forestpal.

Well, somebody had to post it:

http://vimeo.com/20197419