So my LDS girlfriend and I are normal human beings and express our love to each other sometimes through sex.

After the new missionary age announcement something triggered in her head and now she wants to leave on a mission by next Spring.

I disaffected from Mormonism 3 years ago and I have respectfully made it clear to her that I strongly recommend she does not use an LDS mission to satisfy her needs for selflessness and instead focus on service through her chosen career path in the medical field instead of the missionary field to avoid frustration and disappointment that I personally experienced with the missionary program.

Here's my big question for the forum: She has had a few more sexual partners before me, if she is honest during her interview process do you think this will disqualify her?

She is obviously good at creating her own interpretation of explicit rules. She says growing up she wrote her own version of For Strength of Youth and renamed it "For Strength of (Her Name)"

She is a very nonjudgmental loving and caring person who is quite a very literal believer, so I am very concerned that either she will feel horrible for lying to a bishop or horrible that she that she is rejected from being allowed to do what in her mind is the best service she can offer.

If she is honest what are her chances she will be allowed to be assigned to an LDS mission?

The last I heard, admittedly several years ago, the rule was if you had ever had sex, you couldn't go.

I knew several people who were disqualified for this reason. They were told that there was no process for repentance that would allow them to go, but that they should repent anyway, so they could go to the temple... someday... (I know one person who did "repent" so they could go through the temple, it was grueling, embarrassing and very difficult, all to go through what turned out to be a terrifying experience that they never repeated).

So, if that's still the case (and it may not be), if she's honest in the interviews, she won't be eligible for a mission and it will be difficult for her to even make it to the temple for some time.

Either way, the interview process is going to make her feel terrible.



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 11/05/2012 02:30PM by Finally Free!.

Zero. Having sex automatically disqualifies you.

bc Wrote:
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> Zero. Having sex automatically disqualifies you.


Pretty sure this is not true. I know of kids who bumped uglies and went on missions. This has happened for the past 35 years.

The whole "raising the bar" is mostly smoke and mirrors

It's the official policy. It used to be 1 year until the raising the bar thing.

However:
1) People lie
2) People ignore the policy.

Where she has had multiple sexual partners it ain't happening unless she lies.

As an aside on the lying thing - I had a friend who received his call and was about to head out in a couple weeks. The night he was to be set apart as an Elder his girlfriend told him she was pregnant.



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 11/05/2012 02:50PM by bc.

I was wrong on the details:

You can still go if you have a little sex but not if you've had a lot of sex or multiple partners.

http://www.exmormon.org/mormon/mormon181.htm

I had a district leader who had been involved with multiple partners and openly admitted it. It was part of the "Turn from your evil ways" sermon he'd give investigators. Seems like everyone in the mission knew and yet he still served honorably.

no it doesn't you can go you have to repent and be worthy!

Why would you want to deal with this kind of screwed-up manipulative judgmental cult bull$#!t in your young life?

And why would you want to be dating a young woman whose interpretation of reality is so fluid?

she gives great head

This policy proves that LDS leadership doesn't believe in the cleansing power of the atonement of Christ forgive you and make it as if you had never sinned.

aka, this policy is not Christian.

It also proves that the q15 have no idea how many individuals are lying about it either.

That's right they don't really.

back in the 'good ol'days' of Brigham Young and Blood Atonement, fornicating was one of the sins that Christ's atonement didn't work for and you really needed to have your own blood spilled in order to fully atone.

I've known several guys who had sex, and then went on missions. One of them had a child. His girlfriend gave the baby up for adoption so they let him go on a mission.

Another one was that guys best friend. They made him wait 3 months to apply. Then he went on a mission.

My youngest brother also had sex with his girlfriend for a year. Three month repentance time, and off to south america.

My step son had sex with his girlfriend. He wasn't allowed to take the sacrament for 30 days. He also went on a mission with no delay.

A mishey in our ward had previously been a gang member. Do you think he never had sex?

A close friend of mine was married for 9 months, got a divorce, and went on a mission. They got married again once he got home. As you can imagine, it didn't last much longer the second time around.
They wouldn't let him serve a second mission after that divorce. Sadly, he was over the age of 26 by then.

Masturbation keeps many kids from being allowed to serve missions. Sex is a no-brainer. She needs a period of abstinence before she can go, coupled with a convincing display of repentence, or in other words convincing the bishop that she believes that what she did was wholly and absolutely wrong and she would never dream of doing it again.

Or she could just lie. That's what many kids do.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 11/05/2012 02:40PM by kimball.

I think it depends on what an individual bishop or SP feels is "raising the bar". I had friends who admitted to having sex that were sent on missions anyway. Then I had other friends who were told no for much lesser things like masterbation. I think if a potential missionary is up front about it, the more likely they'll get to go. I had two friends who lied about it, and went on their missions. Both times, the bishop found out about it later and they came home early.

Handbook 1 says that if you've had a sexual relationship for an extended period of time or multiple partners you will not be eligible for missionary service.

She could always lie. Though I doubt that would work against her Stake President's powers of discernment. /sarcasm/

1. Mormons TOLERATE Lies
2. Mormons are TAUGHT to lie, is almost the last Article of Faith.

they just don't get (or, don't care) the position their policies put people in, -or- they think the angst is (somehow) 'good' for sharpening their discernment / ability to cope in a world full of sin.

On Top of Those is the arbitrary / capricious ways that (known) policies are Applied in day-to-day practice.

From wards to stakes to areas/regions, Everything is applied differently; but (up until email/FB, etc) people weren't allowed to compare; what they 'didn't know' couldn't hurt them.


Yet they believe 'the church is the same' from place to place, Time to time.

Right.

Just tell her you love her no matter what and encourage her to be completely honest with the bishop. Then she won't get to go anyway and she won't have to choose between you and the church :)

If you encourage her to serve a different mission (through another church) she can get paid, have you as a boyfriend (not sure which churches, but I have a missionary friend who has a girlfriend at the same time), and fulfill the need to serve Christ if that's what she wants.

EDIT: Wasn't trying to reply to this post specifically, just the thread. Sorry



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 11/05/2012 10:21PM by notsurewhattothink.

Personal experience: If you have sex, you have to wait a year and be free from any "sin" during that time, meeting with the Bish often.

I think the "bar" is different for men and women. I don't see them sending on a mission a YW who's been sexually active with different partners. She'd probably be encourgage to confess and repent and then go find a good priesthood leader to marry in the temple.

I can see more tolerance with YM because, you know, it is a priesthood responsibility.

tho LDS policies may be (claimed to be) consistent / applied uniformly... They aren't.

the real difference is how they're applied 'on the ground', NOT how they're written in some book that Very Few people have access to.

...you and the relationship you share are lower priorities than whatever it is that makes her want to go on a mission. You are disposable.

I wish someone would do a before and after fMRI or PET scan of someone who gets 'missionary fever' and wants to go from being an unrepentant heathen to a TBM (truly brainwashed mormon)...

Maybe we could find out a way to put some context into this 'decision' for them...

She will have to go through several interviews, with the Bishop, Stake President and likely becuase she has had multiple partners wit ha GA of some sort. More than likely they will ask her very detailed questions about positions, techniques, orgasms, whether it involved "perverions" etc. with each partner. Hope she enjoys telling these creepy old guys her stories, unless she is related to a GA, I don't think they will recommend she goes unless she can tell a very heart warming story about repentance so she can be turned into a faith promoting story for those involved.

Unless things have changed, she can go. In 1991 it didn't stop....other people. Not me. Nope. I had a companion who had placed her baby with LDS social services. I know LOTS of people who have had LOTS of sex (and were honest with Bishop) and were able to go but then again, this was a LONG time ago.

I agree with you that this does not eliminate the possibility and you know more about it than I do.

There probably are bishops who would not allow it and others who would as with almost everything in the morg.

The key word is: Repentance. IF...she confesses. Many do and many do not. And if they do confess then it depends on the person's bishop and how much pressure he is under to meet numbers. You gave your input. Now it's up to her to make her decision.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 11/05/2012 07:59PM by SusieQ#1.

She can lie about and perhaps get away with it, if she is a good liar. The problem is that since she is just a sister missionary who has had sex prior to her mission and she successfully lied about it to be able to be on a mission, they wont be able to make her an AP, which is what they usually do with ppl that are that good at lying.

Prior to the age change announcement, did she have the burning desire to serve a mission? I'm guessing not. But all the cool kids are into it now, so...

Encourage your girlfriend to establish high values for herself. Encourage her to choose integrity first, to be honest, to speak truth. Anything that she gets by lying was not meant to be hers.

Do you get my meaning?

I want to be sure- the program DOES NOT WANT HER with her sexual experience, then she should not lie in order to get in. It is disrespectful of herself and GOD will know, won't he?

She will go through her whole mission thinking the reason she is not having success with baptisms is because she lied to get in and doesn't have the spirit. After two years of cult indoctrination and harboring this secret guilt, she could crack psychologically and never recover.

Don't think this has never happened.

She must realize that she is the most important custodian of her own mental health and her own life. Don't marry someone who doesn't love you, don't lie and tell him you love him to get him to marry you, don't lie to get into a missionary program, a nursing program, or a job that doesn't want people like you.

These are all partnerships and respect for yourself and respect for the other side is the key to success.

Anagrammy

I think it also depends from where you're trying to go.

I would imagine at BYU, having sex disqualifies you immediately. In Utah and Idaho, probably more likely as well.

In Maryland, it wouldn't. They'd make you repent, of course, but they're far more liberal, being in "the mission field." I had a friend who had gotten an abortion, no less. She had a wicked disfellowshipment and then was able to serve a mission just a year later.

This would be within the last few years.

So, I mean, I think it's probably possible. And with the Church facing the membership crisis, I would imagine that they'd be ten times as condemnatory towards the sex, but ten times more willing to let things slide to keep their dwindling membership numbers up.

Turning her down from a mission is probably a decent predictor that she'll leave the cult and her tithing will go bye-bye. If she's a poor minority from West Valley, maybe they don't care, but someone whose path is towards the medical field? They'll let them boning sessions slide after a lengthy wagging of the finger.

She could just do what I always did. Lie about everything. That's what you do with them. That's about as much respect as they're worth.

However, I agree with all the above. Serving a mission is un gigantico mistake. If she goes, your relationship is almost guaranteed to fall apart. Hopefully, she thinks better of it.

My bf (in 1999) went on a mission after having lied about being morally clean. Well apparently an opportunity arouse where he confessed to somebody on his mission (maybe the mission president.) They made him repent and not take the sacrament for a month. Then he had to call the stake president back home and apologize for lying to him about it. He was a very hard working missionary so I'm sure they didn't want to send him home. He was in the Sandy, UT mission. Fortunately I had moved a couple of hours away. How ackward would that have been if the stake president would have called me and said he knew...lol.

An Elder in my mission lied about not having sex, before his mission. He had to write a confession/apology letter to his home stake president, wait a few weeks before he knew his fate, and then got to stay on his mission.

I know someone who confessed to having gay sex. He was sent home to repent. After a meeting with an apostle he was allowed to return to another mission.

The Apostle gave him a blessing that his gayness would be removed. Didn't work.

I was held back from my mission 8 months for touching a boob

Quit touching Monson!

I think it would be nice if the OP let us know what happened since the OP is from 2012.

Does she know you don't believe?

Holy thread resurrection, Batman!

Oh it is! I didn't notice the date until now (2012)! Wonder what happened, if she went or not. :)

if she doesn't tell the truth, then there is bigger issue...

if she tells the truth and is allowed to go, then there is yet another issue....

sounds to me like some serious conversations are in order .....

had sex with many different guys. She would go confess every time. She'd always come to me first (for some reason people tend to confess to me) and I'd tell her to go see the bishop.

He told her to go on a mission to help her forgive herself for her sinning. She went to Hawaii and spent most of her time watching soap operas at members' homes or going to movies.

So, yes, girls who have had sex with multiple partners can go on missions. The bishop didn't make her wait to go either. She was never disciplined in any fashion (unless going on a mission could be that discipline). This was over 30 years ago.

My gay ex had had a lot of gay sex and never was disciplined. He had done stuff before his mission, but I don't think he fessed up to all of it. His gay friends who did fess up had to talk to GAs and all of them were able to go on missions.

Why do you care? If she wants to leave that means she doesn't see your relationship as you do. Just let her go and find yourself a nevermo.

Another resurrected thread. I'm genuinely curious about the fate of the O/P couple, though. Guess we'll never know.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 05/21/2017 07:55PM by midwestanon.