All I expect is for my wife to show me some respect when it comes to Mormonism. I don't expect her to quit the church, but I do think that she needs to listen to what I have to say, read at least one book I suggest, or read some online sites that I suggest. Instead, she refuses and can't see how that is an insult to me. If she really loves me as she claims, she should at least be willing to study some things to find out why I don't believe in Mormonism anymore.

She can't say the same thing about me because I grew up in the cult, did a mission for it, attended church for decades, held callings, defended it. I know it very well. So I fully get her side of the story. But she has no idea how I think and feel.

This whole thing tells me she doesn't care about me, truth, reality, etc. she just wants the status quo. I told her that this evening and she just can't grasp the concept. She thinks that not pitching a fit when I don't attend somehow equals supporting me. Hogwash. It could be worse but it still irks me and the insult builds up until I can't stand seeing her.

There's my vent for this evening. Maybe some more music and a drive will help me feel better.

"Maybe some more music and a drive will help me feel better."

Roll the windows down and blast some ACDC and rock out! You can't help what you can't help. But the things you can, make em great!

Also, I just think she's scared. She is afraid of what she will find. That it will challenge her way of life. TBMs like being comfortable. Any sign of discomfort and they snail back into their shells.

It's why they are so quick to ignore the polygamist past and latch on to the (1) man (1) woman "families can be together forever" propaganda. I feel for you. I hope one day she develops the courage to step out of her comfort zone.

My wife was similar, but would listen simetimes, and over time she was out. We now enjoy a hike and wine on sunday. One thing that helped her was to see just how uncristian and hypocritical mormons can be. The gospel of love is the gospel of rules, gossip and ladder climbing. Try and hang in. It will happen, just wait for church members themselves to do stupid stuff then just sit back and let her tell you all about it.

I have no great advice, this is just a "misery loves company" comment. I am in the same boat as you - same reactions from my husband. So I feel your pain and frustration.

I just keep telling myself I can't control what he does, I can only control what I do.

ita hard to feel like they are "respecting you" and therefore your viewpoint if they refuse to even listen to what you have to say about it. Or look at the info that helped to form your opinions.

Women understand men about as much as cats understand dogs. Just be glad she doesn't talk your ear off with Mormon stuff.

blankstare Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> All I expect is for my wife to show me some
> respect when it comes to Mormonism. I don't
> expect her to quit the church, but I do think that
> she needs to listen to what I have to say, read at
> least one book I suggest, or read some online
> sites that I suggest. Instead, she refuses and
> can't see how that is an insult to me. If she
> really loves me as she claims, she should at least
> be willing to study some things to find out why I
> don't believe in Mormonism anymore.
>
I know it's rough when people won't listen and support you. I remember how shocked I was when one of my siblings didn't offer the sympathetic ear I expected.

I don't think the fact that she doesn't want to do assigned reading means that she doesn't respect you. Listen, the Mormon church is a controlling cult. Her behavior is typical of people in ANY cult. Avoiding anything that would threaten her faith has been conditioned into her with fear, probably her whole life. If she comes around, it will be when SHE'S ready. Pressuring people to question their faith usually has the opposite effect, and activates defensiveness. Don't expect her to do assigned reading. If she isn't ready, it won't do any good. Seriously, back off if she's not ready. You have the right to be treated with respect and love, but so does she.


> She can't say the same thing about me because I
> grew up in the cult, did a mission for it,
> attended church for decades, held callings,
> defended it. I know it very well. So I fully get
> her side of the story. But she has no idea how I
> think and feel.
>
I get it. Mormons tend to say "read this, listen to this talk, let me explain it to you", as if you haven't heard it 100 times. It would be nice for her to listen to you.

> This whole thing tells me she doesn't care about
> me, truth, reality, etc. she just wants the status
> quo. I told her that this evening and she just
> can't grasp the concept. She thinks that not
> pitching a fit when I don't attend somehow equals
> supporting me. Hogwash. It could be worse but it
> still irks me and the insult builds up until I
> can't stand seeing her.
>
Does she really not care about you? I highly doubt that. But maybe you should ask just to clear the air. My guess is that she DOES love you, but isn't ready to question.

Does she really not care about truth and reality? (I think it's usually fear of what the truth would mean).

Has she ACTUALLY said insulting stuff to you? If so, then call her on it. But the way you stated it, it sounded like the insult was that she won't read what you want her to read. I think it's unreasonable to EXPECT someone to read a book, or look at a website for you, if they don't want to read it or it goes against their beliefs. I think it would be reasonable to ask her to read the essays on the church's own website. That's not 'anti', and it might at least make her aware of the issues. And then let her talk about her reactions.

The fact that you can hardly stand seeing her is a concern. Please just realize that the cult owns her right mind now. Try and sympathize rather than blame. Contempt will just push her away.

https://www.gottman.com/blog/four-horsemen-contempt-part-ii/



> There's my vent for this evening. Maybe some more
> music and a drive will help me feel better.

I hope so.

If she is fully respecting your right to believe differently, then I don't see how it is an insult to you. She wants to maintain her beliefs. She is not interested in having them challenged. How many times on this board have we said that someone has to be *ready* to see the truth about the Mormon church? If you are not ready, you will never see it even if it is right in front of your face.

I personally would not take kindly to a partner who would insist that I read a particular book, website, etc. Your wife is an adult and can read whatever she likes for information or pleasure. If she wanted you to read things that are abhorrent to you, how would you react to that?

She isn't at a point in her development to care about reading "anti" materials. I suggest you work on your relationship and not force this issue unless she shows an interest.

What Cheryl said.

Keep in mind: she has you, her spouse, telling her it's not worth believing. She has the church, which she's been "married to" longer than she's been married to you (assuming she's BIC), telling her that it's evil to doubt, that the material you want her to read is evil, and that her eternal soul is at stake if she listens to you.

You can understand her fear, right?

I'm not justifying her fear. Just hoping you can understand that it's not "disrespecting" you. She's got to be seriously conflicted, and doesn't know what to do about it.

Give her space and time. And show her that not believing in the church doesn't mean not loving her.

I agree with the posters who are trying to gently suggest that the "respect" shoe may be on the "other foot."

Your spouse need not adhere to your faith beliefs in order to love you. When you were TBM, she likely agreed with, supported, even lauded your beliefs, and you accepted her alignment with your belief system as as a statement about your worth to her.

That positive input is now absent, but you also chose to remove those opportunities to support you from her. She likely feels the vacuum as well. It will take time to re-build new opportunities - common ground. Begging or commanding (and all in between) - who did this to you? Who had that much influence to "make" you decide against being a TBM?

Instead of thinking that she must conform to your *new* beliefs as a sign of her devotion to you, try to give her the space, time, love and support to "fall in love" with this new version of you. She is not only afraid of her own apostacy, but of yours. Be a safe place for her, much more so than any bishop or p-holder. You may already "know" her position, but you need to LISTEN, if you want the same respect. She's wondering where her husband went.

Apply "active listening" to your conversations with her.

My best to you.

I see your attitude as more driving her away than anything.

Back off and show HER some respect. Let her have her beliefs...esp since she isn't insisting that they also be yours.

Demanding or expecting her to do something she doesn't want or isn't comfortable with is NOT ok on ANY relationship...keep it up, and that relationship will be over for you.

Instead focus on spending time together that ISN"T about religion or lack of it. Make a point of NOT talking about it and forcing your ways and thoughts on her. Start enjoying each other...or that chance is going to be gone.

I'm not quite grokking exactly why the wife "needs" to listen to the OP in order to show respect.

Why isn't that a two-way street?

Shouldn't the OP respect that the two of you believe differently? Just like you don't "need" to read the BoM; I don't see why she NEEDs to do what you want her to do.

If you want her to leave the church with you, you're gonna have to take a look at your NEED to control and dictate your wife's choices for her. Because if she does ever leave, that "you NEED to do whatever I TELL you to do" ain't gonna fly.

I think her not pitching a fit that you don't go to church is a step in the right direction. You are lucky to get that from her at this point. There is one tiny glimmer there that she respects your right to believe differently than her. This glimmer can grow into questioning her own beliefs.

applesauce

Your feelings are valid. It sucks to feel like you're not respected. I totally get that. BUT your feelings are also subjective. They come from your thoughts on the matter. If you're ready for a change, try questioning your thoughts. "Is it really true that she doesn't respect me? Or am I interpreting her actions that way?" "What makes me feel respected? Can I ask for that in a way that's not as threatening to her? And has she shown a willingness to honor me before? If so, can we find that space again? " "How am I not honoring her? Could I validate her experience better so she can feel safe?"

Most women want to feel secure and safe. With Mormon women, this is compounded by the whole idea of being safe and secure for not just life, but for eternity. So, unfortunately, by seeing the truth and acting with integrity to your beliefs, you've inadvertently violated her deepest need, both here and in the afterlife.

She's probably experiencing a lot of fear. Fear that you've changed. That you've been corrupted by Satan. And fear that if she reads what you suggest that she'll be corrupted by Satan too, and you just can't see it because your hearts been hardened. (Damn the Mormons and their mind control!!!)

Give her space. The more you can find ways to reassure her that you're still the man she fell in love with and that you want to protect her and keep her heart safe, the more she will start opening up to you.

I know it sucks. I know it can hurt to feel like you're the one making all the effort and they're not meeting you halfway. But at the end of the day, you've gotta ask what your driving motivator is. Is it to love and be loved? If so, you may have to be the one that puts in the lions share of effort. Be patient. You've got this. And in the meantime, enjoy those rides and crank the tunes.

It can be frustrating, because we who've left know how truly ridiculous the church is, but she might be feeling judged as well.
Your statements about her-- that she doesn't care about truth or reality-- are pretty presumptuous. How do you know that? You can't know that just because she's a member because we all were.

My husband and I don't share the same political views, but he doesn't expect me to read Marxist theory repeatedly and get upset when I don't. If I'm interested, I'll ask him. I know it can be hard because her views are factually absurd, but maybe try to look at it like any other difference of opinion. You wouldn't pressure her this much with other differences of opinion, right? Because right now it almost sounds like if she doesn't agree with you or do homework assignments of reading, you won't feel respected. You might still be being affected by "priesthood holder" views of relationships. If you give up Mormonism, you have to give that up too, which means she can read or not read whatever she likes.



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 09/22/2016 12:01PM by woodsmoke.

Thanks to all for the comments and suggestions. Since my initial vent was limited, I didn't give all the background, and we don't know each other well, you had to do some reading between the Lines. Even those comments that misunderstood me are useful for all people though not necessarily for my situation.

Some read my comments to say I gave her a reading list or tried to force feed books into her. I wasn't clear on that. Actually I've never tried to get her to read any books, not even church books. She doesn't read books other then an occasional novel. She doesn't even read the news much. I find it odd, but she has her interests and reading history and science is not among them.

The only thing I suggested to her that she might find interesting were the essays. I tried to give her a couple of snippets but she shut down the conversation. I said these were written by the church for members but she said she didn't care.

So my claim that she doesn't care about truth or reality is not presumptuous at all. She has stated that she doesn't care whether it's true. She said she grew up with Mormonism and will die a Mormon. If she'd been raised Catholic she'd stay that.

I try to be respectful of that though I find it hard to understand. Normally, I don't bother her about church stuff and just let her go. We've been married several decades and we get along well on many things.

What prompted my rant last night was that she disrespected me in front of the kids, which is something she has done a fair amount despite my requests to stop. That plus some personal issues where she and I have different interest levels. She expects things from me all the time but rarely reciprocates, despite heart to heart discussions on the topic. She'll do better for a very short period, then lapse into her normal obliviousness of the issue.

So those two things set me off, coupled with my frustration at her lack of interest in reading anything or learning things and I had to get away and vent.

She's the kind who will do almost anything for people but she's stuck on incorrect views and cliches. For example, some of our grown kids have moved on from the cult and they drink a bit, like wine tasting. My wife incorrectly claims alcohol kills brain cells. It does not and when I pull up articles from places like the Mayo Clinic, she won't listen. She doesn't want her cheese moved.

Anyway, it's a new day and I'm happy. Again that's for hearing me out and trying to help. And forgive my grammar as I'm on a phone and time crunches.

This gives a lot more context. That would be really frustrating.

I'm curious, if you feel like answering, what got you two together? Just youth and the church? I'd be frustrated if my husband wasn't at all intellectually curious.

Woodsmoke, Met at BYU. At first we got along and I was more into outdoor activities at the time. So we connected more on that. Camping, family stuff. Oddly we didn't talk church much. So I thought I was getting a rational person as far as church. I was totally inactive despite being a Zoobie. I never attended church. Couldn't stand it. But I had family in the area and had fun living life. But when we married, all of a sudden I was thrust back into church activity. Wow. That was depressing. I considered divorce but we had a kid on the way. We made it work and I attended. Thankfully my job took me away a lot so I didn't get big callings. I lingered, only half believing for 20 years then quit. Now I'm happy not attending and she tolerates it but just won't talk about it. We still connect on outdoor things and family and TV and medical things. But it's tough to discuss science or history because, like fundamentalists, she believes the earth is 6,000 years old, Noah really had an ark with dinosaurs, etc. there's a whole aspect of reality that is untouchable because the Morg has her brainwashed.

>>What prompted my rant last night was that she disrespected me in front of the kids, which is something she has done a fair amount despite my requests to stop.

If you have already shared your feelings about that on a number of occasions, IMO it is time to call her out on it when it happens -- "It is NOT okay for you to disrespect me in front of others." I would be forceful in the delivery of that.

>>That plus some personal issues where she and I have different interest levels. She expects things from me all the time but rarely reciprocates, despite heart to heart discussions on the topic. She'll do better for a very short period, then lapse into her normal obliviousness of the issue.

I think it's time to lower her expectations of you.

Summer,

What you said is what got me listening to music. Insult me and I will first call you out. If you play stupid as she did, I won't take. So she gets pissy and blames me for starting it. Twilight zone stuff. Drives me nuts.

On the expectations, I try to keep reminding her to reciprocate and it's off on. When I withhold, she acts clueless as to being to blame for anything. I don't get it. Like there's a mental block. Doesn't want to take any blame. I'm not perfect but sheesh.