Part 2 of 2
--Mormon Dealing-with-the Dead "Eternal Truth" #X
True to form, the Mormon ghost-believers' eyes remain glazed and unfazed, as they roll out their own examples of what they (along with their opponents) passionately, imaginatively and irrationally claim to be a real-time rendevous with the spirits of the dead:
"Six Amazing Accounts of Those Who’ve Visited After Death
by Delisa Hargrove
31 March 2014
https://mormonhub.com/blog/faith/belief/6-amazing-accounts-of-those-whove-visited-after-death/"The doctrine of life after death is central to the teachings of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints . . . . Latter-day Saints, or Mormons, believe that, at death, the spirit of a person continues to live, though the body is buried in the grave. . . .
"The first president and prophet of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, Joseph Smith, declared that the spirits of righteous people who have died 'are not far from us, and know and understand our thoughts, feelings, and emotions, and are often pained therewith' ("Teachings of the Prophet Joseph Smith," p. 326). . . .
"In his article, 'The Enabling Power and Ministering Angels,' Dr. Craig R. Frogley discussed how interaction with the dead is under divine design through the Holy Spirit:
"'We have been instructed by the Savior to pray to the Father in the name of Christ. When we receive divine inspiration or revelation it comes through the Holy Spirit. But President Kimball taught,“God does notice us, and he watches over us. But it is usually through another person that he meets our needs.”Could that other person include an ancestor on the other side? If so, when they communicate, it is under divine direction and through the Holy Spirit.'
"Accounts of visitations of deceased persons to the living demonstrate God’s reality, fulfillment of prophecy, comfort and protection to mortal man.
"1. The Angel Gabriel Visited the Virgin Mary
"One of my favorite scriptural examples of a deceased person ministering to a mortal person is the interaction of Angel Gabriel, known during his mortal life as the prophet Noah, to the virgin Mary. 'Hail thou that art highly favoured, the Lord is with thee: blessed art thou among women. . . .Fear not, Mary: for thou has found favour with God. . . . For with God nothing shall be impossible' (Luke 1:28, 30, 37). The Anunciation of Christ’s birth had been prophesied for centuries! What heavenly news!
"2. Jesus Walked With Disciples to Emmaus
"There are many stories of the Savior’s appearances after His Resurrection. On the road to Emmaus, Jesus walked and talked with two friends and then broke and blessed bread with them. 'And their eyes were opened, and they knew him; and he vanished out of their sight. And they said one to another, Did not our heart burn within us, while he talked with us by the way, and while he opened to us the scriptures?' (Luke 24:30-32). Can you imagine how that would feel? To have been in the presence of the Savior without realizing it? 'Be not forgetful to entertain strangers: for thereby some have entertained angels unawares' (Hebrews 13:2).
"3. Jesus Fulfills Prophecy Appearing To His Other Sheep
"In a poignant Book of Mormon passage, the Savior appeared to people on the American continent,
"'And behold, the third time they did understand the voice which they heard; and it said unto them: Behold my Beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased, in whom I have glorified my name—hear ye him. And it came to pass, as they understood they cast their eyes up again towards heaven; and behold, they saw a Man descending out of heaven; and he was clothed in a white robe; and he came down and stood in the midst of them; and the eyes of the whole multitude were turned upon him, and they durst not open their mouths, even one to another, and wist not what it meant, for they thought it was an angel that had appeared unto them. And it came to pass that he stretched forth his hand and spake unto the people, saying: Behold, I am Jesus Christ, whom the prophets testified shall come into the world. And behold, I am the light and the life of the world; and I have drunk out of that bitter cup which the Father hath given me, and have glorified the Father in taking upon me the sins of the world, in the which I have suffered the will of the Father in all things from the beginning. And it came to pass that when Jesus had spoken these words the whole multitude fell to the earth. . . .' (3 Nephi 11:6-12).
"Imagine seeing a heavenly being descending from heaven, speaking to you, and declaring Himself to be the Christ. He spent time with every person that day, healing them, teaching them, loving them. Though they were a crowd of thousands, He blessed them individually.
"4. The 'First Vision' that Began the Restoration of Christ’s Church
"In modern times, 14 year-old Joseph Smith wanted to know which church to join. While reading the New Testament, James 1:5 impacted his young heart: 'If any of you lack wisdom, let him ask of God, that giveth to all men liberally, and upbraideth not; and it shall be given him.' Joseph went to a nearby grove of trees and prayed to God. He saw God the Father and Jesus Christ!:
"'I saw a pillar of light exactly over my head, above the brightness of the sun, which descended gradually until it fell upon me. . . . When the light rested upon me I saw two Personages, whose brightness and glory defy all description standing above me in the air. One of them spake unto me, calling me by name and said, pointing to the other--This is My Beloved Son. Hear Him!' (Joseph Smith-History 1:16-17).
"Have you prayed to know that God exists? I have and have received the calm reassurance of the Holy Spirit in my mind and heart which removes doubt and fear and increases faith. I know that God the Father lives and that He and Jesus Christ appeared to Joseph Smith in answer to his prayer.
"5. Founding Fathers Appeared to Wilford Woodruff
"Wilford Woodruff, an Apostle and later president of The Church of Jesus Christ, related that many eminent men, women, and America’s Founding Fathers appeared to him requesting sacred ordinances be performed for them in the temple.
"'Every one of those men that signed the Declaration of Independence, with General Washington, called upon me as an Apostle of the Lord Jesus Christ, in the Temple at St. George, two consecutive nights, and demanded at my hands that I should go forth and attend to the ordinances of the House of God for them. I straightway went. . . ."
"James G. Bleak also witnessed this event:
"'I was also present in the St. George Temple and witnessed the appearance of the Spirits of the Signers of the Declaration of Independence. And also the spirits of the Presidents of the U.S. up to that time. And also others, such as Martin Luther and John Wesley, who came to Wilford Woodruff. . . .'
"6. Heber J. Grant’s Life Preserved
"Eugene Cannon recorded in his journal, dated June 1, 1898, that:
"'Brother Heber J. Grant arose and bore his testimony that when he was sick one year ago and was operated upon, that prior to his being taken to the hospital that both of his wives went and consulted Dr. Richards as to his condition and Doctor told them, if a certain kind of pus was found in him there would be no hopes whatsoever for his recovery. Later his wife who is now dead appeared to one of his wives and told her that if he was taken to the hospital he would recover. He went to the hospital and the pus spoken of by Dr. Richards was found in him. He recovered and is a living testimony to the people of the power of God.'
"God is aware of our individual needs and can bless us with the inspiration to know what to do for ourselves and our families.
"God’s glorious Plan of Salvation affirms that while death separates a spirit from its body until resurrection, that person is still alive in Christ. Interactions with righteous departed souls generally occur under divine direction for communication or protection. Many Latter-day Saints have enjoyed personal interaction with their deceased loved ones for healing, comfort, and the advancement of God’s work on the earth.
"I invite you to learn for yourself that God lives and knows you. You can learn more about God’s Plan of Salvation by visiting with Mormon missionaries."
And finally, personal testimonials from average Joe and Jane TBMs who swear that they have actually visited with dead people, as part of God's One-and-Only-True-Church plan to bring the two worlds together in an effor to, well, take over the whole damn Universe, one ghost encounter at a time,
The following are accounts from a Mormon internet watering hole where they swap their stories in sincerity and seriousness:
"Visits From Deceased Persons"
on LDS Freedom Forum: Your home for discussing politics, the restored gospel of Jesus Christ and the principles of liberty"
http://www.ldsfreedomforum.com/viewtopic.php?t=44483.
1. "I recently re-read the account of a member of the Church who was fighting in late 1944 in Holland during WW2, in which he wrote: 'I woke up one morning very early, and there was my grandmother, standing right at the head of my foxhole looking down at me. She was there alright. Just as plain as anything I saw her looking at me, and I looked at her and waived.'
"His son who co-authored the book added: 'When the mail came through, it brought word that explained what the image he had seen of his grandmother standing by his foxhole had meant. (His grandmother) died on October 22, 1944.;
"The grandmother had been living and had died in Cardston, Alberta, Canada. It is an interesting mystery to me that she could find her grandson in a foxhole in Holland. Any thoughts on how she could find him in the middle of a battle during WW2. Any thoughts how that could happen ?
"I have heard and read of people receiving visits from deceased relatives, but the distance in this case really set me to wondering how a deceased spirit could find a person from so great a distance. I sometimes envy people who receive visits from friends or relatives from the other side of the veil. But then, that could put one under more responsibility than one could handle."
2. "I have read accounts of NDEs that said that they only had to think of a person or place and they either instantly or very quickly were able to go to the person or place. This seems reasonable to me.
"My father was visited by his father when he was investigating the Church. My dad was not really investigating--my mom who was a inactive member was taking discussions to try to get back involved in the Church. My dad would listen in, but he was Lutheran, he smoked 2-3 packs per day, and really was not interested.
"He said his father's spirit visited him one night, and said that there was no one else in the family who would do the temple work for their family. My father quit smoking cold turkey and told the missionaries that he wanted to be baptized. The missionaries told him that they had decided to stop teaching our family, and would not have returned if Dad had not called them.
"Dad went on to become a bishop and member of the stake presidency. Not that I feel callings really indicate anything, but he was very faithful, very active in temple work, and during the last three years of his life when he had health issues and could not do much else, he indexed over 100,000 names."
3. "I believe that is because the veil is lifted after death, things that were once hidden become easily known. Thus for the grandmother to find her grandson is really no effort. We are told by the GA's of 'parenting beyond the veil.' This means that our loved ones are very close oftentimes, to inspire, protect and even give us impressions. Many fail to understand that the Holy Ghost is NOT always the one to do these things. He is the testifier of our Savior and His Church, that is his role. The stories of people hearing voices of warning are more than likely loved ones from the other side. I can't remember which prophet it was that told a story of himself as a youngster being warned not to do something. It was the voice of his father or grandfather that he clearly heard. (can't remember exactly!) So the term guardian angel is real; it's a beloved family member already passed on. It could be someone we remember or even someone like a g-g-grandparent that we never knew personally here on earth.
"I think that is neat for this WWII soldier to experience that. I have a cousin who lived in a distant state when my grandma died. When her father (my uncle) called to tell her of grandma's death, she told him that she already knew because my grandmother was sitting at the foot of her bed the night before."
4. "[One poster] wrote:
"' . . . The grandmother had been living and had died in Cardston, Alberta, Canada. It is an interesting mystery to me that she could find her grandson in a foxhole in Holland. Any thoughts on how she could find him in the middle of a battle during WW2. Any thoughts how that could happen?'
"I have heard and read of people receiving visits from deceased relatives, but the distance in this case really set me to wondering how a deceased spirit could find a person from so great a distance...
"Speed of thought. How it works? No idea. But if I can send you . . . a message in the blink of eye, half-way across the world (and I don't even know you), then I don't think it would be that hard for a deceased person to find a loved one."
"Merry Christmas!!"
5. "Having personally experienced visits from both the deceased and from the yet unborn, I can assure you that the love of God makes all these things not only possible but likely.
"'As a prophet reveals the truth it divides the people. [T]he worldly either want to close the mouth of the prophet, or else act as if the prophet didn’t exist, rather than repent of their sins. Popularity is never a test of truth.' --Ezra Taft Benson"
6. "My understanding is that space is akin to knowledge in the spirit plane. So the more knowledge you have, the more you can travel. If you have knowledge of someone, then you can be 'close' spiritually to them."
7. "I agree with the sentiments here about time and space meaning more to us in mortality than they do to those beyond the veil.
"My wife and I have both had experiences of visitations from deceased family.
"Governments don’t live together, people live together. With governments you don’t always get a fair word or a fair fight.
"Well I’ve come here to give you either one - Or get either one from you."
8, "My father-in-law visited his grandson within minutes of his death, even before a phone call could be made to inform them of his passing.
"He died in Nottingham, England and was in his grandson's bedroom in Mountain Home, Idaho within 5 minutes.
"This happened on 13th October 1993."
9. "The doctrine is that most of our prayers are answered by family members interference in this world. Go'd work is the immortality and eternal life of man, all the angels and departed spirits have the same task - other than teaching the dead the majority of the work is to help mortals. Even Jesus was assisted during the atonement as an angle stood by and strengthened him during the trial. It is very annoying if you pray for a blessing--some family member has to come down and interfere. I have since decided it is best to stop praying for blessings or assistance. Unfortunately salvation is a family affair and that is how the program works. It can work both ways - if we have evil ancestors, they can come down and partner with us and cause real havoc."
10. "The last couple of days I have spent time re-rereading Chapter 4 of the book 'LIFE EVERLASTING' by Duane Crowther, and find it very enlightening on the subjects of visits from deceased persons."
11. "[One poster] wrote]:
"'The doctrine is that most of our prayers are answered by family members interference in this world. Go'd work is the immortality and eternal life of man, all the angels and departed spirits have the same task - other than teaching the dead the majority of the work is to help mortals. Even Jesus was assisted during the atonement as an angle stood by and strengthened him during the trial. It is very annoying if you pray for a blessing --some family member has to come down and interfere. I have since decided it is best to stop praying for blessings or assistance. Unfortunately salvation is a family affair and that is how the program works. It can work both ways - if we have evil ancestors, they can come down and partner with us and cause real havoc.'
"Maybe your relatives are watching you and hanging on your every word so that they have permission to help you. Ask for help, it is heaven and people want to help."
12. ". . . I had had a very difficult period in my life with lots of trials, sick wife, unemployment, wayward child, depression etc. I was having great difficulty just wanting to hang on and just to make it through day by day. Throughout all of December I started feeling departed family members and angels throughout my house, but I just didn't know why. The day before my dream I expressed to my wife that I'm feeling angels in our house. I ask her if she feels the same and she said she did.
"Early in the morning I was sleeping and I was in the spirit world, and felt I was moving towards a figure. And when I got close I now recognized who it was. It was Gordon B. Hinckley. As I got right in front of me, he embraced me, and I felt a flood of love throughout my entire body. Just thinking about it brings tears to eyes. In some inexplicable way, all of the pain, all of the hurt, all of the depression I had been feeling for the last 7 years evaporated and was replaced with joy greater than the sorrow I had felt all of those years. Every bit was replaced with pure joy. It was truly an Alma the Younger experience, and testified of it in Testimony meeting two weeks later.
"Every time I see a picture of him, I can't help but break down and cry. It has changed my life forever."
13. "'For where your treasure is, there your heart will be also.'
"I've heard that just as we have trials and things to overcome in this life there are things to learn and to become in the spirit world. One of the obstacles to overcome is focusing on where your spirit is.
"If as [one poster] suggests, a spirit needs only think of a place to be there, how difficult will the next existence be for people addicted to the wrong sorts of things, people or places. Consider a poor man trying to overcome an addiction to video games. He is sitting there in the spirit world trying to focus on the gospel and an image of Halo pops in his head, instantly he is transported to place where people are playing video games, but he can only watch, not play so his desire is unfulfilled. Now he must consciously choose to think of a nice peaceful place in order to escape the video game trap.
"Talk about Hell. not able to control where you exist because of what your heart dwells upon.
"Never dismiss a generous thought."
14. "[One poster] wrote:
"'He said his father's spirit visited him one night, and said that there was no one else in the family who would do the temple work for their family. My father quit smoking cold turkey and told the missionaries that he wanted to be baptized. The missionaries told him that they had decided to stop teaching our family, and would not have returned if Dad had not called them.
I do not have a personal story to tell of ancestral visitation. I have heard several such stories from various individuals. I will share one which Original_Intent brought immediately to mind.
"I had worked with a person for several years. They knew my religious beliefs and would often chide me in a somewhat playful manner. We sometimes would discuss different ideas on how my beliefs played into modern society. That person is a pretty staunch liberal and worries that any belief system that condemns personal moral behavior is a danger waiting to oppress thought and healthy freedom. A member on one side of their family, from a previous generation, had converted to the LDS faith which had caused some disharmony. The family still interacts with this part of the family but their are defined differences and problems that still arise over this perceived problem.'
"This person's Grandfather had died hating Mormons and Joe Smith. My colleague was very close with their Grandfather and would often talk about their time spent together. I considered my colleague to be borderline atheist. One day my colleague told me that some years earlier they were in bed and awoke with their Grandfather sitting on the end of their bed. They had a short interaction concluding with the Grandfather stating the reason he had come was to tell them he was wrong and that Joseph Smith was right and he wanted them to know that."
15. "Excerpts from an article in the 'Church News,' section of the 11 November 1967 'Deseret News':
“'At 86, James Elbert Whetton still remembers the time he taught the Gospel to Pancho Villa, famous Mexican Revolutionary leader.'
“'Two missionaries assigned to labor in the town of Namiquipa, located several miles from the Mormon colonies, needed supplies, so early in March, Elder Whetton and Stake Pres. Joseph T.
"'Bentley headed out in buggies loaded with food.'
“'Passing through a mountain area, the brethren were halted by armed men and taken to a guerrilla camp. Later, they were moved into a town which the guerrillas had captured and held prisoner through the night.'
“'Pres. Bentley and Elder Whetton were invited to have breakfast with the man in the checked suit and a light – complexioned gentleman. During the meal, the light – complexioned man asked many questions about the Mormons. Elder Whetton answered since Pres. Bentley did not understand Spanish.'
“'Finally, the light--complexioned man identified himself as Felipe Angeles, a noted and highly trained military officer. He introduced the Mormons to the man in the checked suit – Gen. Villa.'
“'"I always admired the Mormon people,” Villa said. “They mind their own business.
“'"General, for my part, I wish the whole republic would turn Mormon. When this revolution is settled, I am going to join this church if there is any opportunity for me to do it." Angeles declared.
“'"Why haven’t any of your people explained these things to me before?," Villa asked. “This is the first time I have known anything about your teachings. If I had known these things earlier, this would have been a different Pancho Villa. Is there any chance for a man like me to join the Mormon Church?”
“'He encouraged the brethren to continue their journey to Namiquipa and gave them a hearty “abrazo” when they parted.
“'Not long afterward, Angeles was captured and shot by the opposing forces. Villa also met a violent death in 1923 at the hands of assassins.'
“'Years passed. Pres. Bentley died and Elder Whetton became an old man. One night , Pancho Villa, whose real name was Doroteo Arango, appeared to him.
“'Do you know me”, Villa asked.
“'Si,'
"'"You told me that if there was ever any time that you could do something for me, you would do it,” the general said. “You are the only one who can help me. I want you to do my temple work.”
“'Elder Whetton wrote to the Church Offices in Salt Lake City for permission to do the work and received approval. After the genealogical sheets were prepared, Doroteo Arango was baptized by proxy on Feb 25, 1966, in the Arizona Temple. Whetton himself did the endowment work for the general a few days later. He also had the temple work done for Angeles.”
"I . . . first learned of this from a copy of a few pages of a Whetton family journal given me by a member of our ward about 25 years ago. Recorded in that journal are a couple of things that might be of added interest:
"Felipe Angeles had been trained at the U.S. Military Academy at West Point, NY., and may have been serving U.S. interests as well as advising Pancho Villa’s forces.
"When Brother Whetton told his wife of his dream of Villa’s appearance, she suggested it was brought on by something he had eaten the evening before.
"Brother Whetton also travelled to Mexico to obtained permission from Pancho Villa's wife to have his temple work done."
16. "My grandmother visited me in spirit as she was dying. I was living in a different state and due to the timing was not able to visit her before she died. I never saw her, but felt her presence very strongly and heard her message to me. It was a very sweet experience."
17, "My father visited his mother when he was hit in Vietnam. the letter they got was he lost his right arm. He came to he without a left arm to let her know that he was hurt but will be "OK". For 3 weeks she argued with family and friends. they lost him for about a week - he was passed out on a gurney and did not know where he was and they where in Chicago looking for him. He showed up in Philadelphia with out a left arm. it has always been in interesting story in our family."
18. [One poster] wrote:
"' . . . I had had a very difficult period in my life with lots of trials, sick wife, unemployment, wayward child, depression etc. I was having great difficulty just wanting to hang on and just to make it through day by day. Throughout all of December I started feeling departed family members and angels throughout my house, but I just didn't know why. The day before my dream I expressed to my wife that I'm feeling angels in our house. I ask her if she feels the same and she said she did.
"'Early in the morning I was sleeping and I was in the spirit world, and felt I was moving towards a figure. And when I got close I now recognized who it was. It was Gordon B. Hinckley. As I got right in front of me, he embraced me, and I felt a flood of love throughout my entire body. Just thinking about it brings tears to eyes. In some inexplicable way, all of the pain, all of the hurt, all of the depression I had been feeling for the last 7 years evaporated and was replaced with joy greater than the sorrow I had felt all of those years. Every bit was replaced with pure joy. It was truly an Alma the Younger experience, and testified of it in Testimony meeting two weeks later.
'Every time I see a picture of him, I can't help but break down and cry. It has changed my life forever.'
"This account really bothers me."
19, "It doesn't bother me whether you believe me or not. I stand by it just as Joseph Smith did in his vision. In fact he said this about his life, and I will say approximately the same thing as Joseph said with any changes of his quotes my me to clarify what I feel to tell you."
“' . . .You don’t know me; you never knew my heart... I don’t blame any one for not believing my story. If I had not experienced what I have, I would not have believed it myself.'
"If you knew the old me and the new me, you would understand. And I'm not offended."
20. "[One poster] wrote:
"'The doctrine is that most of our prayers are answered by family members interference in this world.'
"I have heard this from several people, but I have not found anything from the Church leadership saying this is doctrine. Can you point me to a source?"
21. "[One poster] wrote:
"'The doctrine is that most of our prayers are answered by family members interference in this world.
"'I have heard this from several people, but I have not found anything from the church leadership saying this is doctrine. Can you point me to a source?'
"There are many recorded visits by family members to general authorities - we are told that when we go the spirit world that the work continues there. The blessing or cursing of Elijah is that salvation is a family affair and there needs to be a welding link between family members. Those that have a testimony of family history will acknowledge such, The understanding came to my reading many NDE and peoples accounts of visits from the spirit world of which I had one--I documented it in my post above but later deleted it. . . .
"'The first president and prophet of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, Joseph Smith, declared that the spirits of righteous people who have died "are not far from us, and know and understand our thoughts, feelings, and emotions, and are often pained therewith” ("Teachings of the Prophet Joseph Smith," p. 326). President Ezra Taft Benson said: “Sometimes the veil between this life and the life beyond becomes very thin. Our loved ones who have passed on are not far from us” (in "Conference Report," April 1971, p. 18; or "Ensign," June 1971, p. 33).
"'In his article, 'The Enabling Power and Ministering Angels,' Dr. Craig R. Frogley discussed how interaction with the dead is under divine design through the Holy Spirit. ..
"'We have been instructed by the Savior to pray to the Father in the name of Christ. When we receive divine inspiration or revelation it comes through the Holy Spirit. But President Kimball taught,“God does notice us, and he watches over us. But it is usually through another person that he meets our needs” Could that other person include an ancestor on the other side? If so, when they communicate, it is under divine direction and through the Holy Spirit.
"'Brother Heber J. Grant arose and bore his testimony that when he was sick one year ago and was operated upon, that prior to his being taken to the hospital that both of his wives went and consulted Dr. Richards as to his condition and Doctor told them, if a certain kind of pus was found in him there would be no hopes whatsoever for his recovery. Later his wife who is now dead appeared to one of his wives and told her that if he was taken to the hospital he would recover. He went to the hospital and the pus spoken of by Dr. Richards was found in him. He recovered and is a living testimony to the people of the power of God.'"
22. " . . .Thanks for that reference. Though your quotes don't explicitly state that ancestors are assigned to answer our prayers, it is easy to infer that conclusion.
"Since joining the Church I was always taught that our primary duty in the Spirit World will be missionary work, so it's nice to think that we will be so involved with the living - and maybe even the unborn."
23. "'I hear people talk about spirit communication or visits all the time and yet you hardly ever see anything about testing the spirits. We live in the last days, which is the time of the greatest spiritual deception of all time, where we are taught in scripture and the temple on exactly how to test, yet not one brings it up on LDS forums or groups when talking about spirits or angels.'
24. "[One poster] wrote:
"'Thanks for that reference. Though your quotes don't explicitly state that ancestors are assigned to answer our prayers, it is easy to infer that conclusion.
"'Since joining the Church I was always taught that our primary duty in the Spirit World will be missionary work, so it's nice to think that we will be so involved with the living - and maybe even the unborn.'
"When I first joined the Church about a year later there was one woman who had terminal cancer and later died. A good fried of her said in a sacrament fasts meeting that she sold her just before she died that she had met her guardian angel a family member. For many years I thought that was very weird but since I have had a change of mined/understanding on the doctrine. God is not in all places and available to do all things it is also part of our training and development to assist the living once departed etc., etc. The kingdom of heaven works the same as on earth PH authority is delegated all the way down for our development and that is how the church is built up using the same celestial principles used in heaven. Unfortunately it is all about family.
"There is a lot in incidental evidence which I give no real weight to when considering doctrine. A family in our ward had a child that said grandpa use to come and play with him this went on for a while then later he saw a family photo album and identified the person who visited him. Hundred such stories the evidence stacks up and considering the basic principles of the gospel and what we know about family and salvation and how the church operates on earth and what little we know about the heavens it is only one conclusion we can draw. There are so many traditions in Africa and most cultures about ancestors etc."
25. "[One poster] wrote:
"'I hear people talk about spirit communication or visits all the time and yet you hardly ever see anything about testing the spirits. We live in the last days, which is the time of the greatest spiritual deception of all time, where we are taught in scripture and the temple on exactly how to test, yet not one brings it up on LDS forums or groups when talking about spirits or angels.'
"I think it would be easy to recognize a close family member vs someone pretending to be one. Would a false spirit visit you with a message of love and all is well?"
26. "Well, as long as the spirits talk about good things and lollipops and rainbows then we don't need to know how to test the spirits. I mean, wow, as long as the spirits look familiar and say happy things we shouldn't need the information on how to test.
"I'm sorry for being so sarcastic, but yes, spirits can dress up as anything they want. And they will start saying anything to gain our trust. I've seen several who have been deceived by what they think is a family member or good spirit. It's time to stop relying on our experiences (arm of the flesh) and to rely on what sound doctrine tells us."
27. "My Grandpa and Grandma . . . died on the same day. I was a baby when this occurred. When this unfortunate event happened, Grandpa had a heart attack and was undergoing emergency surgery at the hospital to save his life. He did not make it. Grandma saw her deceased parents at the hospital. As she told her kids this-- they told her 'Let's go home and rest, mom--You are tired and obviously upset.' Grandma was in good health. She was in her late 60s. As the family returned to her home to gather and draw strength from one another and to make funeral plans for Grandpa--Grandma went to take a rest in her bedroom.
"She never woke up and died peacefully in her sleep.
"I have read her patriarchal blessing many times. She is told clearly in her blessing that if she were to remain faithful that she could choose the time and place of her departing this earth life, and that it would occur in a twinkle of an eye.... Such was the case.
"Negative thoughts produce negative words which produces negative actions. Purge the negativity. Dwell in Christ, and reflect his bidding: Moroni 7:45-48. :)"
28. "[One poster] wrote:
"'Thanks for that reference. Though your quotes don't explicitly state that ancestors are assigned to answer our prayers, it is easy to infer that conclusion.
"'Since joining the Church I was always taught that our primary duty in the Spirit World will be missionary work, so it's nice to think that we will be so involved with the living - and maybe even the unborn.'
"Scriptures are clear that the angels are given charge over us. Many experience that is that it is often deceased family members who have charge over us. And it makes sense in the light of salvation is a family matter. Well any angel/s can be given charge over us.
"Psalms 91:11 'For he shall give his angels charge over thee, to keep thee in all thy ways.
"Luke 4:10 'For it is written, He shall give his angels charge over thee, to keep thee:
"Doctrine and Covenants 109:22 And we ask thee, Holy Father, that thy servants may go forth from this house armed with thy power, and that thy name may be upon them, and thy glory be round about them, and thine angels have charge over them;
"Matthew 4:6 'And saith unto him, If thou be the Son of God, cast thyself down: for it is written, He shall give his angels charge concerning thee: and in their hands they shall bear thee up, lest at any time thou dash thy foot against a stone.'
"Doctrine and Covenants 84:42 'And wo unto all those who come not unto this priesthood which ye have received, which I now confirm upon you who are present this day, by mine own voice out of the heavens; and even I have given the heavenly hosts and mine angels charge concerning you.'"
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CONCLUSION
So, there you have it. Mormons make their case for dancing with the dead--or not, depending on the dead's spiritual temperament--as allowed by the one-and-only true Mormon Jesus.
As for true-believing non-Mos or ex-Mos in their own get-downs with ghosts, one would not expect them to simply throw in the towel and admit they've been hanging out with the wrong spirits from the wrong dead people. Instead, they fervently proclaim that their spottings of, and visitations with, the spirits of dead relatives, friends and family are close encounters of the "true" kind. Therefore, the rub: Both camps insist that their doctrines on the dead are the genuine eternal-joy McCoy.
"My spirit-of-the-dead encounter stories beat your spirit-of-the-dead encounter stories." On and on it goes, where it stops only the "true" ghost knows.
Whatchya gonna do when they talk to you?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m9We2XsVZfcEdited 4 time(s). Last edit at 03/31/2017 08:41AM by steve benson.