Subject: Why improving the quality of investigators cannot solve the Mormons' problems
Date: Dec 24 07:49 2004
Author: Tyson Dunn
Note:  "Investigator" is the Mormon term for a person who is taking Mormon missionary discussions and may convert to Mormonism

Observer had posted that the problems that plague the Mormon church - inactivity, incomplete conversion, backsliding, etc. - could be solved if the church concentrated on the quality of its conversions and not the quantity.

However, every one of us who has sat through a Mormon correlation meeting or any missionary training session knows that they come upon this idea themselves sooner or later. It is the basis of the unofficial but pervasive "set a date" program wherein members find proselytes from among their entourage of friends. Since the friends know the members and are preselected by them, this should bring in higher quality converts. Whether it works or not is debatable, but I want to focus on the deeper part of the question: is there a difference in convert quality?

In my opinion, "quality" of conversion is a very Mormon idea. It's certainly not Biblical - Jesus commanded His disciples putatively to go to all the world, not to mention asking who had need of the physician if not the infirm. Other faiths seem to do fine carrying around an enormous load of the slow-witted, the mentally-challenged, the backsliders, the doubters, the poor, the infirm, the neglected, the abused, etc. Mormonism does not and cannot.

At the heart of the Mormon problem is the Mormon centralization of all aspects of Mormon life. Correlation turns interested, faithful, and engaged people into worn-out drones. They do not receive the care they need on any level, and all the while feel put upon and powerless.

Members do suffer when someone with genuine problems enters their ward, because they are in no position to provide pastoral care--being untrained to such ends, emotional care--being overwrought with meaningless callings, financial care--being overburdened with tithes and offerings, or any semblence of love which the cult has stripped away from them and turned to fear of the out-group.

What other church compels the local membership to:
# give most of its moneys centrally to receive pittance in return
# teach lessons based on central planning rather than the struggles they are having
# not organize local fundraising efforts: bake sales, car washes, dinners, carnivals, etc.
# not develop any ecumenical outreach
# put their energies only behind those issues the central leadership deems fitting, e.g. members can show up at hurricanes wearing mass-produced Mormon relief t-shirts, but would be rebuked for doing the same thing for an AIDS Walk
# turn every breathing hour to fulfilling grunt work for the faith
# be content with non-disclosure of core facts and figures - incomplete and whitewashed history, lack of financial responsibility

A church which controls all details globally cannot respond to local needs. And that's where the problem of the Mormon church lies. The notion of an ecclesia seeking out "better converts" is merely an indication of a systemic failing within that church.

Solving the problems of the faith is not a question of improving the incoming membership - that's just the antics of the operators of a pyramid scheme - but rather ensuring that the membership have a reason to remain engaged. And engagement depends on local control. When the Mormon church finally gets it again, then they'll pull themselves out of this mire. I just think that Salt Lake is too enamored with its tightened grip to relinquish it for the needed freedom and transparency to move forward.

Tyson

Subject: Re: Why improving the quality of investigators cannot solve the Mormons' problems
Date: Dec 24 08:45
Author: Smithmas Elf

Great post. Also significant is the practice of one-on-one interviews. Most normal people would recoil at having to disclose their sexual or financial history to a "bishop," not for voluntary counseling, but UPON REQUEST...

Subject: "A church which controls . . .
Date: Dec 24 09:01
Author: Cheryl

all details globally cannot respond to local needs."

That's the crux of the issue.

Unlike other churches, the Mormon church milks members to feed organizational strength. Individual needs are secondary. This is a topsy-turvy orientation for a so called humanitarian institution.

Choosing members based on organizational needs? This tips the topsy-turvy church from non-humanitarian to complete non-relevance.

Subject: Yup, the brethren just don't get it.
Date: Dec 24 09:33
Author: Stray Mutt

They're running an institution so their focus is on the institution. They see the members as the support structure and revenue stream for the institution, the Kingdom of God On Earth®.

Or, maybe they're more like what Homer Simpson told Lisa, "I do understand. I just don't care."

Subject: Why they fail to improve the quality of investigators
Date: Dec 24 10:26
Author: opinionated

"Better investigators" are less likely to fall for the BS.

This is an idea that HAS come up many times in various contexts. In every case I'm aware of, efforts to focus on "higher quality" investigators has resulted in sharp DROPS in lessons taught and baptisms, and the pressure for numbers eventually pushes efforts back to where they had started before the brilliant idea.

Bottom line: "Raising the bar" on mishes [missionaries] is an excuse for dropping numbers of 19-yr-olds who want to go. "Raising the bar" on investigators is a guarantee that these mishies will have less success. Don't expect any dramatic increase in the "quality" of investigators until the Brethren stop caring about growth.

And don't hold your breath that THAT will EVER happen. :-)

Subject: the quality of investigators
Date: Dec 26 00:00
Author: t-bone

I think the LDS church focuses on those most likely to convert. What conditions make someone more likely to accept a religious conversion?

Those who are
1. lonely/isolated
2. going through a tragic loss: death of a loved one/child or divorce - other traumatic experience
3. suffering undiagnosed mental illness
4. otherwise separated from their support system

That's why campus ministries are popular among many different faiths. Unless a person is lost, lonely, or otherwise lost they are not interested in something like the Mormon faith.

So, having said all this, I don't think there will be a serious rise in the "quality" of investigators in the near future.

Subject: The Brethren will never figure this out because they love the power and adulation
Date: Dec 25 22:53
Author: Perry Noid

of being at the center of things. They do not want the little people doing good works and getting credit for those good works at the local level. They want things organized so that anything good that happens at the local level is credited as a result of obedience to the "master plan" of the "Lord's Annointed" leaders in SLC.

Boyd K. Packer's penchant for likening the Church to a great army engaged in war with the forces of Satan only serves to further promote this one-size-fits-all centralization in the COJCOLDS. The General Authorities see themselves as generals and strategic commanders in a great war and they want the army to run as a well-oiled machine. There is no room for local and individual initiative, when the guys at the top arrogantly think that they have all the answers (despite the dismal track record to the contrary) and want to hog all the glory and power for themselves.

The extremely low opinion that the Brethren have of the intelligence and judgment of ordinary members of the church is sometimes breathtaking.

Subject: [Original post] Seems to me that concentrating on quality, rather than numbers, would solve many LDS problems.
Date: Dec 23 19:23 2004
Author: Observer

My missionary experience, like that of many on this board, was characterised by the drive for numbers - often resulting in the local membership having to pick up the pieces after the missionaries had gone. By placing the emphasis on slower, higher quality teaching, surely the proportion of leftover problems would fall dramatically. Take, for example, a missionary who baptises ten people, of whom only two or three stay active, would it not be better to baptise five better taught, better integrated (with local members etc) people? The same is true of things like home teaching. Instead of concentrating on numbers and percentages, wouldn't it be better to concentrate on quality, with meaningful, regular information being passed to leaders re the spiritual status of members? I wonder if Jesus concentrated more on numbers than the individual well-being of each of His converts.

Subject: Re: Seems to me that concentrating on quality, rather than numbers, would solve many LDS problems.
Date: Dec 23 19:54
Author: Leah

You cannot make a silk purse out of a sow's ear, no matter how you go about it. Mormonism is built on lies and therefore cannot deliver any thing it purports to promise.

If it were God's true church it would shine forth as a beacon of light and the honest in heart would be naturally attracted to it. That was Mormonism's original premise, right?

In other words, the product would sell itself without having to apply a strategy. So what does that tell you? Does the true church have to trick people into joining, or harass them into staying, or excommunicate them for printing truth? I think not.

Subject: Finding "quality" people is like finding a needle in a haystack
Date: Dec 24 00:21
Author: anon

Quality investigators are increasingly difficult to find as the religion "market" has never been more competitive than it is now. And considering most quality converts are obtained through members and members aren't participating in missionary work like they are harped on, there is little anything left for the full time missionaries to do other than seek out the weak and vulnerable who will be out the back door of the local Morg chapel as quick as they were rushed through the front door.

Related Topics to Mormon Missionary Work