The coolest thing I learned on this thread was that Dawkins isn't committed to memes as an explanation for human culture. Thanks, robertb. Whew. That makes me feel better about Dawkins as a thinker. While I respect him as a scientist, a great deal of his writing about the anything in humanities seems below undergraduate level work. I really like what you are saying, Brett4. At best the meme n
Forum: Recovery Board

He is to me. :) Seriously, it is because he "went back," although it seems to me he is always doing that.
Forum: Recovery Board

I'm honestly sorry. I wasn't making fun of any disability -- as I didn't know you had one. That is "impaired" as in driving while impaired -- as you know -- you sound a little too emotional -- as in -- okay -- I'll just say it -- sloppy drunk. Austism runs in my family. To quote "Arsenic and Old Lace," it practically gallops. I have several disabilities myself -- both physi
Forum: Recovery Board

Religion should not be allowed to “hijack” the great cultural resource of the Bible... “I think it is important to make the case that the Bible is part of our heritage and it doesn’t have to be tied to religion. “It’s of historic interest, it’s of literary interest, and it’s important that religion should not be allowed to hijack this cultural resource. “You can’t app
Forum: Recovery Board

Try not to act like impaired, ahtiest&veryveryunhappy. Do you imagine you or your generation discovered any of that? No one is disputing the problems in the Bible or in Christian history (although you have rather muddled them here.) I am only disputing the silly idea that the Bible does not also contain gorgeous passages and grand ideas. Why is some people are so hysterical about the Bible
Forum: Recovery Board

atheists&unhappy -- you really need to stop doing that. As you know nothing of my beliefs, you can't judge how they are coloring my perceptions. Let's see -- Mormonism. I left over forty years ago. I've probably been an atheist longer than you have been alive. It would not surprise me. *Please revise your statement accordingly and get back to me.* I've never regretted leaving for one m
Forum: Recovery Board

That method might or might not produce great literature. It just happened to in this case. Not that I love the Bible. But I do respect it. (I adore it in places and loathe others.) But my response to the Bible is not that important. What seems important is what bona dea was talking about -- maybe the Bible isn't someone's cup of tea. So what? Not everyone gets Bob Dylan. Not many westerners l
Forum: Recovery Board

Yes. Of all the reasons to discard the Bible as literature, the strangest has to be it has come down to us in another form! How odd! Like concluding that petroglyphs are not "real art" because they have worn, chipped, and faded or that Shakespeare isn't "real art" because it was originally put on in open air theaters in the middle of the day by people speaking impossible quick
Forum: Recovery Board

You do get the difference between the Hebrew and the Nephites, don't you RJ? Oh -- never mind. I suppose that too is over your head and makes no sense to you. If you can get why Hebrew are real and Nephites aren't, you can move on why the Bible is real and BoM not so much. Of course no one of any importance disputes if the Bible is literature. They also don't dispute if Shakespeare, the Tao de
Forum: Recovery Board

Concluding something is fake because it was written long after it supposedly happened makes no sense at all. None. And it shows little understanding of the history of mankind. Stories started out being told around campfires. That form of both history and fictions predated writing by quite a bit. That doesn't mean stories that were passed orally are fake. It means they came out of a different time
Forum: Recovery Board

It isn't really that hard. The Bible is real literature -- as you say, myths, tales, writings produced by a real people -- the Hebrew. They really lived. They really produced the Bible. It is as real as the Changing Woman stories of the Navajo or Greek philosophy. It is as real as the plays of Shakespeare. It is neither a fake nor a scam. That is not to say the stories literally happened. It
Forum: Recovery Board

I have no patience with people who take the Bible as literally true. Obviously enough -- no chance. Does it even need to be said? But I am equally impatient with people who equate it to the Book of Mormon (which means they still can't tell the difference between real -- the Bible -- and fake -- the Book of Mormon). Nor do I have much time for people who damn it as evil. Oh please. It is wor
Forum: Recovery Board

My point is that I oppose all political support for anti-science agendas -- and I don't care if that support comes from believers or non-believers. I think policies that suppress or twist scientific information are wrong and destructive -- period. And not all believers support those politics and not all non-believers oppose them. I also always liked the 13th Article of Faith, although it isn't
Forum: Recovery Board

On the thread about The God Delusion, Brother of Jerry argued that Christians had done Bad Thing historically, and not only that, they cause pain in their families in the here and now. Hmm. One of his arguments was that ignorant Christians destroyed the great library at Alexandria. This is an atheist urban legend, of which I hear entirely too many for a group that supposedly prides itself on b
Forum: Recovery Board

For the hell of it I went to the 48 Hours Facebook page to find out how other people see this. Of the post I read, everyone thought she was guilty. Beyond that, a few worried she will get off. Most thought she came off as psycho. Often people were appalled at her obsession with appearances -- her makeup before she was arrested. No one I read said anything about the Mormon connection, and for some
Forum: Recovery Board

The thing is, you have the impression she believes her own act somehow! And in that, she isn't that different from any number of more "normal" Mormon women. She really believes the fakey fakey voice. She believes her sweet and gentle demeanor. She really is something out of a horror movie. Of course where we might see a morality tale about the dangers of the Mormon manner, Mormon
Forum: Recovery Board

It was good. Both players seemed (at least to me) Mormon types. Lot of dishonesty, lot of dissembling, lot of weird sexuality. It seemed a Mormon, if not exclusively Mormon, story, although you would have to be a Mormon to really see it.
Forum: Recovery Board

I do not think it is a Mormon thing. It is charming movie with a cult following. If you don't get it, don't worry about it, but don't blame the Mormons, on the other hand, either.
Forum: Recovery Board

I honestly have no clue, but I do think it might be wise not to jump to conclusions. What I took away from the story is that her dance coach or someone in that world is the most likely suspect. In some ways it sounded distinctively not Mormon -- this person was threatening her she would be a loser if she returned to Utah. Not your average Mormon abuse. Not that is couldn't happen. Anything is pos
Forum: Recovery Board

I find the idea someone deserves to die for having sex horrifying -- and the very worst side of Puritanism. Actually, the Puritans only clapped you in the stocks or made you wear a scarlet A -- they didn't judge it a hanging crime. The on-going violence in this country is shocking, and nothing justifies it.
Forum: Recovery Board

They are handing out BA's from Cornell to people who spell "certain" "sertain" and don't cap University when it follows a specific school name? Interesting. I guess -- in that case -- enjoy your stint in Mormonism. You might fit right in.
Forum: Recovery Board

Just cancel your appointment with the missionaries and save your time and patience. What you are doing is like asking a Ford saleman to drop the house to explain to your how the combustion engine works and how it has improved over the last 100 years. Like he knows. All he will do is try to sell you a Ford. Period. I am not clear about your question or your curiousity, but there has to be a bet
Forum: Recovery Board

I don't know about Mormons, but I knew. Unfortunately, it has been held against him throughout history -- at least that was my very vague impression. I don't know much about English history.
Forum: Recovery Board

To even mention a religion exists and to share your experience there is to proselytize -- if you don't know the meaning of the word. As for the rant about how this is another cult and some prefer science, the UU in my city has sponsored Secular Humanist lectures for decades. You can look up what Secular Humanists are if you are struggling with the concept. I'd link to their page, but I have he
Forum: Recovery Board

It isn't only "Mormon apologists" who have a problem with this. The "evidence" here is thin and circumstantial and would not stand up in a court of law -- with the exception of the one that acquitted OJ. It is "possible"? Sure. Is it even "probable"? I have seen nothing here that suggests this is anything more than speculation. "Because Phar Lap, too,
Forum: Recovery Board

I'm glad you had a good experience. I was going to say on the other thread, whatever you do, don't feel compelled to join. For one thing, that would be very unUU. :) And I think when making certain choices feelings should be respected and taken into account, despite people realizing you can be misled by warm fuzzies, etc. etc. If you don't feel at home UU, don't join and don't feel bad about it.
Forum: Recovery Board

androidandy -- I think that is unfair. Winnie-the-Pooh is utterly charming and gently teaches some valuable life lessons. (See The Tao of Pooh and similar books.) While even as a kid I was not a fan of cartoons, Daffy Duck and Mickey Mouse are innocent amusements and have obviously stolen the hearts of many. And no one demands that grownups -- or even children -- find them "real." Bo
Forum: Recovery Board

I think the picture of religion I find here at RfM is (often) a straw man. Many religions don't really fit the stereotypes. I get "Christians Tired of Being Misrepresented" and "Catholics for Choice" on my Facebook news feed, and I love them both because they are thoughtful, intelligent, questioning, accepting communities with something cogent to say. Also, back in the day, I
Forum: Recovery Board

Whatever. It is a religion with its own taboos -- such as one never proselytizes for it. Congregations vary. Ironically, I belong to one of the most liberal in the nation -- because I live in Salt Lake. We mostly get refugees from Mormonism -- who have been burned and who are twice shy of religions consequently. I will just tell you a little about the UU to which I belong: * They were ho
Forum: Recovery Board

You might indeed be surprised, snb. I sometimes manage to stir my lazy self to go to a UU congregation. It is mostly made up of atheists like me. Not that atheists can't be dogmatic. Lately, I've noticed, sometimes very. But these atheists are of the admirable, old-fashioned non-dogmatic variety. There are some beliefs -- in community, helping each other, struggling to be a good person by taking
Forum: Recovery Board