To the OP -- Have you heard of Exhale? Just google that with "abortion regret," and you can find the site. (I don't know if I can link to it here.) "Exhale" offers a place for people to give voice to their abortion regrets in a supportive atmosphere where their stories will not be exploited for political purposes. You might want to check them out. But a few things in you
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The OP ended with a question. To answer it, no, not at all. I have no desire to go back -- I didn't even leave because of the many problems in the history of the church or the many provable untruths being peddled as the truth. I left -- simply put -- because I did not enjoy it. I found the "sermons" irritating and easily replaced by the shallowest of self-help books. The songs, the p
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So MJ, how do you deal with religions like mine -- UU -- that have gone to bat for the GLBT community -- and with atheists who have not dealt with their issues and are still -- er -- struggling? I doubt anyone is going to call Chris Brown religious, yet the man has his problems with gays while I go to a proudly rainbow congregation. (It's actually spelled out in the stained glass of social hall -
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@Dave the Atheist -- Uhm -- really? Did. You. Read. The. Article? Here is what happened. A secular person uninvolved with any religion did a study about religion and beliefs about the origin of the earth, mankind, etc. A STUDY. He published his results, as he found them interesting, and they are RESULTS. He was appalled when atheists responded with furious accusations -- such as he must be
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I'm not a believer. I never was. When I was a kid, I just assumed when I grew up I would feel something I have never felt at church, for church, for Mormonism. When I hit eighteen, I realized, not unlike someone who is gay, this is it. This is who I am. It is not changing or going away and I'm going to have to deal with it. And really? This is what atheism has come to -- at least for some? Fur
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@homo sapien maximus -- That advanced the cause of rational thinking -- how? Do you ever think about the sheer irony of saying, "I hate religions because they teach hate!" Hate-filled rants are hate-filled rants are hate-filled rants, as Gertrude Stein observed. (Okay -- not exactly. :)) I just know of -- even Mormons, not the kindest or most civil or most out-going or most reason
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@Richard Foxe -- You know how some atheists describe believers as having imaginary friends? There is a certain type of atheist who comes across as someone who is mad at his imaginary friend -- which gets a bit weird at times, too. I am not sure if science and religion are incompatible. It seems to me it depends are how you define both. It is interesting to go through the slide show at the bot
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@Rebeckah -- you might want to check. I think you posted on the wrong thread. @jacob -- I don't like the term anti-religious either. I think he was trying for a parallel structure (first clause was about religious people). A good editor should have caught that, but alas, there is no editing nowadays. You just muddle through without another pair of eyes to catch things like that. Throughout, he
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I love it. http://www.huffingtonpost.com/max-tegmark/angry-atheists_b_2716134.html Max Tegmark of MIT put into (a few well-chosen) words somethings that have been bugging me for awhile now. There is a breed of atheist who is -- exactly like the religions he decries. Clipped from the article: 1) They help religious fundamentalists: 2) They could use more modesty: 3) They should
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Yeah, I like that being an American has significant differences from being Mormon or Catholic. But I appreciate that you can be part of something larger and love parts of it and hate parts of it. It happens. Even if I had much more of choice than I do, I would still chose to be an American. (I've had friends who have expatriated.) But the country does not always represent my values and thinking -
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It better not stand or fall on that, because it would mean falling down down down forever in Outer Darkness. :)
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I'm a little puzzled about how something that doesn't exist can have a petty nature, but I'll let that go for now. Or maybe I won't. Is it god who is supposed to be petty about the earrings? Or the Mormons? It is amusing when people get it all tangled up -- people made god in their own image! Don't you just hate how human he looks! Well -- uhm -- as people made him, makes a lot of sense to
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And I need to focus on the failing or the strength -- somehow on the point -- rather than the belief system. What I mean is -- I'd rather read a Catholic for Choice than an atheist who opposes reproductive rights, like Nat Hentoff. And I rather like gray. I like considering -- so were soldiers who went off to Vietnam "brainwashed," like religious folk, like "cult" followers
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Thanks! I do think we agree. Sometimes it is easy to get carried away making your point on the Net and go over the top. It can be hard to express your true opinion. For example, I am passionately pro-choice and sometimes have been very, very angry at the Catholic Church. Also the damage they are doing -- such as discouraging condom use -- is simply a fact, a matter of the record, beyond sane
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I don't want to sound quarrelsome, but I wouldn't say that neither Koresh nor Jones' groups looks like Mormonism in a meaningful way. When I read or hear or watch something about Jonestown and even Scientology it does echo Mormonism for me -- eerily. But I think that there are also important differences, so while it is okay to explore some parallels, it just so over the top and almost meaningless
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And besides, you are ducking my question. Aren't American citizens just as much "cult" followers believing they have done some good in the world?
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@snb -- uh -- do you realize that makes the definition of "cult" pretty meaningless? "Oh ho, Ben Franklin! So you're a Quaker! Why don't you just go kill strangers on command like a Charles Manson follower!" "I see absolutely no difference between the Archbishop of Canterbury and Jim Jones!" This makes atheism as ridiculous as any religion. Sometimes I wonder what
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I dunno. Call me crazy, but I agree with both bona dea and Joycee. I don't even think they are that far apart. Maybe I'm missing something. I think it is bonkers to call the Catholic Church a cult. How exactly do you control a billion people? (That is only the current membership.) Of course Madison Avenue does, but in this age, how does any church? And bona dea is right -- as she keeps hammeri
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jacob "I think a lot of people on here do but it's obvious some do not. Is it a carry-over from Mormonism? Is it an American thing? Seriously, I just don't come across the level of sexist BS in my real life as I do on this forum." Hear hear! I feelings exactly.
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I mean -- I think you should stay out of the trap of what you might call "reverse Mormonism" where you try desperately to make others (here, Mormons) feel your feelings and think your thoughts -- just as Mormons do with the "world." Yeah -- BoM is unreadable, but you don't have to convince them or anyone else. You get it. That is the great thing. A simple "no thanks&q
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:-P "No thanks" is working for me.
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I don't consider them a church -- just a hate group. They are also very small -- more the size of a cult -- a small cult.
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@acerbic -- Good one! All I can do is confirm what everyone else has said. There seem to be (at least) two issues going on. Is the church right about alcohol -- at least for you? Hmm. I don't think you need to gift of prophecy to realize that some have trouble with alcohol -- or that (as the MC does not recognize and acknowledge) some don't. Don't give 'em credit where none is due, especia
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I was rather paying attention when Pope Benedict XVI was appointed -- and I was disappointed. There had been some speculation the choice might be a nod to the Catholic Church moving into an age we might recognize as modern, a nod to reproductive rights (which the majority of Catholics practice no matter what their church says), and a nod to the huge Catholic Church outside the European tradition.
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Sounds as though congratulations are in order all the way around. Congratulations on *choosing* to join a community, especially one you can walk away from should you change your mind without recriminations, kangaroo courts, gossip, or dramas. Congratulations on your wedding. You both sound happy. I don't want to throw a spanner in the works as Crystal has her ring, but as she mentioned the
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And here I just thought he was an unusually articulate and thoughtful poster.
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For whatever it is worth, and it can't be much, I think staying at home is a fine choice. It is a bit of a luxury, and not all families can afford it, but I don't think it is anything to apologize for or feel guilty about. But I also think that goes for stay-at-home dads, and kids are not the only family obligation that can keep or entice people to give up the workforce. I was out of the world
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Because your wait person gives you better service.
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Wow, ragingphoenix, that was a good post. I have read a lot about Dehlin over the years, and I thought I was thoroughly bored of the topic, but you brought something fresh and made me think. I had not thought of it quite that way. That perspective does make some anger legitimate. He can make whatever choices about his own life he wants, as far as I am concerned, but it is another thing to sed
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Thank you! These look interesting. Hopefully I am on my way to bed, but I will read these as soon as possible and get back to you.
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