|Subject:||LDS Missionaries: Death of a parent|
|Date:||Apr 22 21:17 2002|
|This may be well-known to some; but a surprise to others.
Apparently, the official LDS policy is that LDS missionaries can't take a short leave of absence for a funeral even if it's the funeral of their own parent!!
REAL LIFE SITUATION
A few days ago, a healthy LDS guy in his 40s (a jogger, observant of WofW, healthy heart, etc) died during his sleep. Autopsy results not in yet. Could have been some sort of unusual blood clot to the lungs. He spasmed and was in convulsions for about 5 minutes in the middle of the night, and died before rescue personnel arrived.
All 3 kids over 18 and have left home. Widow all alone now. Very sad.
Many friends of the family and people in their ward wondered if the missionary son could take a short leave to fly from his mission in Alabama to Colorado for the funeral, then return to Alabama. Wouldn't be difficult or costly or very disruptive.
But NOOOOOOOOOOO, the fools in charge of the missionaries are sticking to the official rules. They told the guy they would give permission to go to the funeral in Colorado. (gee...aren't they nice to admit that they don't actually CONTROL HIS EVERY THOUGHT AND MOVEMENT FOR THE WHOLE STINKIN 2 YEARS)
But they said that if he chose to go to the funeral (and comfort his grieving mother), then his mission was over - he couldn't return to Alabama.
I would have thought they might change this ridiculous rule since they are encountering a shortage of missionaries.
These fools probably fantasize that "Heavenly Father would be proud of a young man in that situation who stayed on his mission."
Anybody ever know of other missionaries whose parents died while they were "enlisted" in "God's army"??
|Subject:||this doesn't sound correct|
|Date:||Apr 22 21:31|
|I knew an elder in my mission 10 years ago whose mother died while he was serving. The choice to attend the funeral was up to him. I have heard that some will not do this because their parent would want them in the missionfield or because it is a "distraction" (twisted I know). He chose to attend the funeral and was gone for a few days while he flew home, attended the funeral, and returned. It would be a hard thing. I think maybe the missionary you are talking about may have only a few weeks left or something. Or he's being fed BS by his MP or you are being fed BS by someone who wants to get you riled. I've always heard it was up to the missionary, and in the case of the guy in my mission it was.|
|Subject:||>>>doesn't sound correct -- don't know how much time left..|
|Date:||Apr 22 21:54|
> I think maybe the missionary you are talking about may have only a few weeks left or something. Or he's being fed BS by his MP or you are being fed BS by someone who wants to get you riled. I've always heard it was up to the missionary, and in the case of the guy in my mission it was.
I heard this from the home teachers of the family.
I'm sure it is correct.
It's possible that the missionary doesn't have much time left (maybe only a few weeks or few months). Don't know for sure. But I don't see any reason for the mission to end if he goes to the funeral. From your comments, the policy might vary from mission prez to mission prez, depending on how cold-hearted and controlling they are.
The family will probably have a lot of life insurance money. So they could easily afford plane tickets.
|Subject:||Yes. My dad died while my sis and bro were on their mission.|
|Date:||Apr 22 21:44|
|Both my sister and brother were out of the country. My brother
insisted that he come home. He was allowed, but he had to go back and finish his mission.
This was actually a hardship as my mother had to run my dad's business and didn't have the
training or skills -- my brother did.
My sister was not allowed to come home for the funeral. End of story for her. I don't know any of the intimate details, but could find out and report if someone wants me to.
|Subject:||I know a guy from Northern Utah...|
|Date:||Apr 22 22:00|
|whose mother was killed in an auto accident returning
home from dropping him off at the MTC. He didn't
attend the funeral even though he would have only
missed one day of conditioning. I don't know if it was
his choice or not, but have heard that the church
suggested he not.
|Subject:||My sisters story . .|
|Date:||Apr 24 20:11|
|I got the scoop on my sisters situation, but my brother was
My sister was on a remote mission. She was told of the death of my father by her mission president (who in turn was informed by the bishop in the ward where my father died). My father was not a mormon, but my mother was. My sister had never met the Bishop of my mothers ward. The mission president told her that the bishop saw no need for her to come home.
When she was told of my fathers death she had to travel a long way in order to call my mother and get the facts. Once she spoke to my mother, she just wanted to be alone. She was a million miles away and couldn't grasp the idea that Dad was really gone.
She stayed on her mission (like a good girl), but what happened is that the mission president used her as a teaching device. He later told and retold her story as "she did the righteous thing and finished her mission as if nothing had happened."
|Subject:||My aunt died while my cousin and I were on missions.|
|Date:||Apr 22 23:09|
|I was in Japan and my cousin was in England at the time. It wasn't very hard for me; I was really into cognitive dissonance at the time. I don't remember the details but my cousin had an extremely difficult time of it. She didn't come home early.|
|Subject:||A friend recently stopped similar Mormon abuse.|
|Date:||Apr 22 23:15|
|Here is a thought for you. It is so depressing that I want to share
it partly to help me recover from the observing the abuse.
Recently, a good friend's teenage daughter was in the final stages of dying from a long term illness, and the Father wanted his other older daughter to come home from her mission to give her final farewell.
The Father called his daughter's abusive Mormon mission president (a former "corporate" leader), and he said that it was Church policy that missionaries should NOT go home for the death of an immediate family member.
The abusive Mormon mission president then "dictated" a phony letter for the Father to write to his missionary daughter essentially saying that they (the parents) did not want her to come home under any circumstances.
Well, this good Father was a convert and had a much broader Christian experience than Mormonism and, after a lot of prayer, he did not feel good about keeping his missionary daughter away from her dying sister.
So, he started making calls to everyone he knew in Church leadership. He even made contact with a daughter of the Prophet.
Well, eventually someone finally called the abusive Mission President, and he in turn called the Father and asked how he could "help". And, of course, he then "allowed" the missionary daughter to come home.
She was home for two weeks. Her sister died within a few days in the arms of her missionary sister, and she stayed to personally bereave and help comfort her family.
And, of course, the whole time, the abusive Stake President was hounding the family to send her "immediately" back to the mission.
The Father told me about the enormous load that the Mormon Church put on him and his family from that experience. But, like Jesus's parable of the unrighteous judge, he just kept confronting the Mormon abusers until they grew weary of his petitions.
Part of the problem is when you are unfortunate enough to have a former "corporate" leader serving as a "mission president". The corporate leader will never neglect "productivity" (knocking on doors) to "serving" the needs of the sick, dying, and bereaved.
The Mormon Church is very insensitive to the needs of families, despite its public relations campaign.
So, does anyone wonder why Utah has the highest per capita use of anti-depressants in the United States? The members have to do something to recover from the constant abuse of their Mormon leaders.
One final thought, a good friend, who served as a Mission President (and was a medical doctor) told me that the biggest mistake he had made was not to allow a missionary son to return home when his brother had been killed in an automobile accident. He told me that he would have insisted until his son could have come home. The returned missionary had severe depression from the experience, and has never fully recovered.
It is the FAMILY's decision, and they should know that THEY are in-charge of their family's welfare, not an abusive Mormon leader. They can, if they chose, stand up to the abuse and just say, "NO."
My hopes and prayers are with you and your friend,
|Subject:||Wow Gazelle, that was very well written - brings up good points|
|Date:||Apr 22 23:37|
> The Mormon Church is very insensitive to the needs of families, despite its public relations campaign.
Exactly - pressure for all LDS kids throughout their childhood to marry in temple, and then only card-carrying tithe paying people can attend - many devoted loving caring family members are left "out in the cold" - symbolic of how the damned LDS church views itself due to the fantasies of JS:
Fantastic Celestial Kingdom - only Mormons allowed
Far inferior lower Terrestial Kingdom - lesser beings
Then there's the pressure for boys to commit to a mission - and once they get there, abusive controlling mission presidents rule over them often causing nearly irreparable psychological damage. The rules and restrictions are often totally outrageous.
A family oriented church? hardly!!!!!!!!!!!
A numbers oriented church? absolutely!!!!!!!! Mission Presidents often don't even care about the activity rate after their 3 years is done. They just want good numbers during their term.
> So, does anyone wonder why Utah has the highest per capita use of anti-depressants in the United States? The members have to do something to recover from the constant abuse of their Mormon leaders.
The whole LDS society is deeply flawed. There's the problem of absolute devotion to the corporate empire at the expense of normal human living. (for example, if a guy in Utah leaves the church, his TBM wife's family and friends might pressure her to leave him, even though he might be the nicest guy in the world - but an apostate nonbeliever).
In LDSism, there's pressure to believe nonsense, even though some general authorities don't even believe it themselves. For example, Adam & Eve, great flood, tower of babel - many LDS people are highly knowledgeable about science and realize that these fantasy stories are totally impossible - zero percent chance. Yet articles in the Ensign keep appearing demanding that LDS members must believe this nonsense literally.
> It is the FAMILY's decision, and they should know that THEY are in-charge of their family's welfare, not an abusive Mormon leader. They can, if they chose, stand up to the abuse and just say, "NO."
> My hopes and prayers are with you and your friend,
Unfortunately, many devoted LDS familes that I know essentially turn off their brains when "the church" makes decisions and common sense is out the window (just like it is when discussing Noah and his mystical ark in Sunday School).
Many mormons don't stand up to outrageous abuse, but on the other hand, more educated internet-literate mormons are finding sites like this, and learning to stand up to the abuse and tell LDS leaders where they can stick their dumb rules and regulations.
|Subject:||Saying, "No", to abusive Mormon leaders is hard.|
|Date:||Apr 22 23:51|
|I have to admit that I am just begining to learn how to stop the
Mormon abuse in my own life.
But now, at least I know that the first step is to realize that we are in charge of our lives and the welfare of our families, rather than abusive Mormon leaders.
Otherwise, the Mormon abuse just keeps continuing.
Also, I think GBH is sensitive to public opinion. If we just keep posting specific cases of Mormon abuse, I am reasonably assured that he may want to back off of the Mormon Church abusing families.
Do not kid yourself, with 80,000 hits a day on this board, lots of people are getting exposed to the "real" Mormon Church, instead of the PR Mormon Church in the cute commercials.
Thank you for your thoughts,
|Subject:||Re: LDS Missionaries: Death of a parent|
|Date:||Apr 23 00:00|
|My mother died in an auto accident when I was 12(in 1977), and my
oldest brother was serving in Japan. To be honest, I can't remember what he was told, but
it may have the same as the mish in your story.
|Subject:||Re: LDS Missionaries: Death of a parent|
|Date:||Apr 23 00:57|
|about a month ago an afro-american Elder in the Tucson, Az. missions
Father passed away. He had 8 weeks left to finish his mission. He was allowed to go to the
funeral on condition he returned to finish an honorable mission. He went home and
returned. He now has about 5 weeks to go.
Sounds like your friends parents need to raise cain with SLC. to combat the uncompassionate MP.
|Subject:||My uncle was murdered...|
|Date:||Apr 23 02:25|
|It was a family tragidy, but his ONLY son and only child stayed on his mission! I was only about 12, but I never forgot how cold hearted it was. This same cousin is still very active and has been a bishop, etc. I would hate to have him in a leadership position over anybody I cared about today! The church continues to run his life. Talk about a cold fish!!!|
|Subject:||My uncle died in a plane crash...|
|Date:||Apr 23 02:48|
|When my uncle died in a plane crash, his son was on a
mission in Georgia. The mission president told my
aunt that he would let her son decide whether or not to
come home. My aunt called him on the phone and told
him what happened and he simply said "Well, now I will
have TWO fathers watching over me on my mission: my
Heavenly Father and my earthly father."
She proudly related this story at the funeral and I
thinking how extra spiritual my cousin was to have been
faithful enough to stay on his mission. It would have
been viewed almost as a sign of "spiritual weakness"
to come home for any reason--even for sickness or the
death of a family member. It would have shown a lack
of faith in God and his ability to sustain you through any
trial while serving as a missionary.
|Subject:||A woman in my stake was hacked to death by her son ......|
|Date:||Apr 23 09:45|
|while her daughter was on a mission. The daughter was given the option to return home for the funeral and to help out, but she chose to stay on the mission. I thought that was a mistake.|
|Subject:||She had a dad and many siblings ......|
|Date:||Apr 23 13:27|
|and the youngest, a girl, had been traumatized by the attack (she witnessed it). It was a horrible trajedy. BTW, the son who committed the crime had been mentally ill for some time, and the parents were desparatly trying to get him some help when he "cracked" and killed his mother. Incredibly sad.|
|Subject:||Was that Susan Gall? That was such a tragedy! n/t|
|Date:||Apr 23 15:59|
|Subject:||No, she was in the Columbia Maryland Stake ......|
|Date:||Apr 23 17:43|
|in the Catonsville Ward. I know there's a policy on this BB about not naming names, but her name was well reported in the media (even the Washington Post) and it is in the public domain. Her name was Mary Jane Hawkes (ADMIN: feel free to delete the name if it should not be posted). It was a horrible tragedy.|
|Subject:||Bubba .... by chance, was the deceased woman from MD - - say about 2 yrs. ago? n/t|
|Date:||Apr 23 19:31|
|Subject:||Yes -- it happened in February 2001. nt|
|Date:||Apr 24 08:56|
|Subject:||Ooppsss.... sorry, I didn't see the note above me.....|
|Date:||Apr 23 19:33|
|The woman's husband was in the stake presidency? That was my old stake.|
|Subject:||The husband was a bishop at the time .....|
|Date:||Apr 24 09:01|
|He had been released from the stake presidency about a year or so
before the attack. One other note -- the attack occurred on a Sunday just after the mother
and daughter had returned from Church (the son was waiting for them); the father, a
bishop, was still at Church doing interviews at the time his wife was killed by their son.
If the father had been there, I'm sure he would have been killed as well (a young women,
friend of the family, was staying at their home at the time, and she was also killed).
The father is still the bishop of the ward. He remarried just 5 months after his wife was killed.
|Subject:||I'd like to archive this thread. Would anybody else like to add their experiences before I do? n/t|
|Date:||Apr 23 16:10|
|Author:||girl in the box|
|Subject:||Re: LDS Missionaries: Death of a parent|
|Date:||Apr 23 16:25|
|My father was in France on a mission when both of his non-mormon parents died within two weeks of eachother. I don't know if he was allowed to go back for the funerals or not. All I know is that he didn't go back.|
|Date:||Apr 24 11:15|
|Subject:||Family broken apart|
|Date:||Apr 24 19:59|
|I didn't experience the death of a parent (or other family member)
during my mission but I returned to a broken home.
My parents divorced while I was away and were advised by the bishop not to tell me. I'm glad too. It would have been pretty hard on me.
A few days after my return the bishop's wife called out of the blue one day to tell me the reason my parents split up was because our house was haunted by the spirit of the deceased owner who hadn't accepted the church. She told this to me like I needed to use my priesthood powers to cast it out! Like I needed to hear that!
My mom was an emotional train wreck and my dad was living in some shitty hotel room at the time. I could hardly believe this was happening. I gradually learned that alot of the problems were the result of the pressures of living by the mormon book. Not enough money because of tithing and other sacrafices (sending boys on missions?) not enough time together because of church callings. Pressure to be the perfect family. You get the picture. Anyway, I cried alot back then and actually thought dying would bring my parents back together. I asked God to make it happen but he obviously didn't go for it 'cause here I am writing about it!
|Subject:||Well, I'm glad you're here . . .|
|Date:||Apr 24 20:06|
|But I'm sorry for your pain. Did your parents ever resolve their problems and find some peace?|
|Subject:||Re: Well, I'm glad you're here . . .|
|Date:||Apr 24 20:17|
|Thanks. I'm glad I'm here too!
My parents never remarried (this was over 25 years ago).
Neither of them had any desire to go through it all again I suppose. I've always had a bit of a problem with that. I can accept that this is their decision, but for me, well I really need intimacy and sex and closeness with another person. Even if it dosen't last forever! Hell, I'll just keep trying! Thank god I've escaped mormonism. I think I would have ended it all by now!
|Subject:||I hear you. . .|
|Date:||Apr 24 20:20|
|I wouldn't choose to be without companionship if I could help it.
I'm glad you've escaped the collective. Isn't freedom a wonderful thing!
|Subject:||If you've ever wondered if the church is really a cult...then read|
|Date:||Oct 23 22:12|
|A previous post commented on the difference between young
missionaries and missionary couples. The example was a young mish was not allowed to go to
Utah from Colorado for the funeral of his father whereas the older couple was allowed to
go to Utah from Colorado because a sibling was quite ill.
I am amazed at what happened to me today.
I was elected by default to deal with a family matter because I live in Utah. My mother's ex-husband died on Monday. Before you offer condolences, realize that he was, at least early in his life, a real bastard who beat my mother, hit my half brother with a closed fist and even stabbed him (leaving a scar) in the leg with a knife.
My family pretty much no longer exists in Utah. Anyway, as I said, the ex died on Monday in Kearns, Utah. I have a nephew who is the biological grandson of this man currently doing his missionary work in the .... Salt Lake City South Mission.
The widow wanted him to be there and to be a part of the service (probably as pall bearer). It fell upon me to contact the mission president.
Now, keep in mind that my nephew is currently living no more than 5 miles from the wardhouse where the funeral service will take place. Also keep in mind that the wardhouse is located within the mission boundaries.
What was the response from the mission? "Oh, we can't allow him to go to an event that will have a lot of family members present."
That was an exact quote!
What the hell are they afraid of?
It reminds me of those late 70s/early 80s movies about religious cults that wouldn't allow family or friends to talk to their new inductees.
|522. Nightmares of Being Called to a Second Mission||555 Japan Mission under Groberg - a Cruel Experiment|