Note: The Mormon Temple Endowment changed again in Jan 2005. The naked touching discussed below was removed from the ceremony. See Mormon386 Read below what it was like to experience the touching in the initiatory phase of the Mormon temple endowment.
|Subject:||Naked touching in the Mormon Temple. Is it for real?|
|Date:||Aug 20 14:08 2004|
|I have just read on the deconstructor website about
the act of naked touching in the temple.
Is this really done? or just an exaggeration of something else.
Never been to the temple I'm quite ignorant.
Note: The Actual Ordinance (words only) for washing and anointing is found here on this thread
|Subject:||Washing and Anointing|
|Date:||Aug 20 14:36|
|Deconstructor's site is accurate.
The first thing you go through when receiving your endowment for the first time is the washing and anointing. You strip naked and are given what is called a "shield" to wear. It's a big white oval of fabric, worn like a poncho, but open at the sides. It is true that you're not 100% naked, but I think that the difference is splitting hairs. (If you don't believe me, run out into the street with nothing one but a blanket over your head and see if they don't try to charge you with indecent exposure.)
The washing and anointing both consist of various parts of the body being touched by the fingertips of the temple worker performing the ordinance. They use a drop of water or oil on their fingertips, hence washing and anointing. They say a sort of prayer for the good health and function of each of the involved body parts. Unlike other priesthood ordinances, men wash and anoint men and women wash and anoint women.
The parts of the body include the head, each ear, the eyes (I think it was across the brow), nose (bridge), lips, neck (nape), shoulders, back, breast (center of chest if I remember right), arms and hands (touch in one motion along length of each arm), vitals and bowels (point on the side, I think), loins, legs and feet (touch in one motion along length of each leg). The loins are supposed to be done by touching the side of the person parallel to their genitals, but more than one man has reported that perverted temple workers directly rubbed down the front of their penises. They seem to try to get away with it more with first-time missionaries who are young and don't know better.
[Incidentally, I may have forgotten one or more parts.]
The ordinance is performed in a cubicle divided in quarters by sheet-like fabric covering the washing and anointing "rooms". Each space is barely large enough for two people. The first section is an anteroom, the second for washing, the third for anointing, the fourth for being clothed in the temple garments (underwear). In the last one, they have you step into a one-piece temple underwear garment.
|Subject:||OMG! I did block that out. ......|
|Date:||Aug 20 14:47|
|Now I remember that shield. Somehow I had gotten to
thinking that I was in my garments during the endowments but you are
Why did I block that out? Was I traumatized??
It has been about 25 years since I got my endowments.
After that I only did the movie and secret hand shakes thingy when I would go through the temple. I haven't even done that for maybe 20 years.
Don't think I ever did baptisms for the dead.
|Subject:||For the rest of the ceremony, you *are* fully clothed|
|Date:||Aug 20 14:52|
|After the washing and anointing, you put on white
clothes (sometimes a white jumpsuit thing for the guys) and pass through
another cubicle where they give you a new name.
After that the endowment part of the ceremony, i.e., the movie (or live play), the signs, the tokens (handshakes), and going through the veil are all done in white clothes, and you add hats/bonnets, robes, sashes, and aprons over the course of the ceremony.
All in all, cultish and bizarre.
|Subject:||I have no problem remembering the funny clothes and the tokens and stuff since I did that many times. ......and|
|Date:||Aug 20 15:03|
|And yes it struck me as cultish right away. I told my parents what I thought and made my mother cry. But I was already committed to go to Japan on a mission so I just suppressed my feeling about the temple.|
|Subject:||Tyson, it was because of those cubicles divided|
|Date:||Aug 20 18:41|
|by sheet-like fabric that I discovered everyone gets
the same new name.
Tyson Dunn wrote:
> The ordinance is performed in a cubicle divided in quarters by sheet-like fabric covering the washing and anointing "rooms".
|Date:||Aug 20 23:27|
|This is one of the things they DON'T tell you about
in the "temple prep" class that you really ought to know about
ahead of time.
Maybe they are afraid of scaring people. It shocked me silly!
|Subject:||Re: They touch...|
|Date:||Aug 20 14:14|
|your bare lower back with their fingers during the anointing after putting you into a loose fitting robe. Then they help you into your garments. It's very creepy, particularly for an initiated 19 year-old like I was.|
|Subject:||Think of putting on a white poncho naked|
|Date:||Aug 20 14:18|
|That's what it's like. They call the poncho a
"shield" and the sides are open, so it just covers your front
and back. While you are wearing this, they "anoint" you with
water and olive oil on various spots on your body.
It is extremely creepy
|Date:||Aug 20 14:20|
|Thanks SD that helps clarify things. However creepy it was I was actually imagining a lot worse.|
|Subject:||Worse?!?!? Worse than a 90-yr old man touching me just above my pe**is? n/t|
|Subject:||Thanks for the horrid flash back.... now I must find my happy place n/t|
|Subject:||HOLY SH*T! No wonder I was in therapy for years!|
|Date:||Aug 21 01:30|
|I'm with you, Saucie!!! "Find a happy
place...find a happy place!"
I am definitely copying this so my daughter can read it if she ever decides to go to the temple. Reading this just now seriously made my stomach turn. I CANNOT BELIEVE I bought into this! Actually...I had repressed the memories of the W & A (along with the childhood sex abuse, which is probably why the W & A freaked me out so bad)...and I NEVER did them again! Now I know why!!!
AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH!!!! Psycho satanic cult!
|Subject:||Ya, Empowered save it for your daughter !!!|
|Date:||Aug 21 22:00|
|I'm so embarrassed that I actually gave that little
episode in the temple any credence whatsoever. WTF??? The whole
thing is insane !!!!!
|Subject:||Darn it to heck, I thought this thread would be a good one|
|Date:||Aug 20 17:26|
|but now I find out "naked touching" is about the temple. Talk about a drop in hormones. Talk about getting the willies. I had put out of my mind that silly, cultish ceremony. Thanks for bringing it all back for me.|
|Date:||Aug 20 17:33|
(PRELIMINARY TO THE ENDOWMENT)
After showing his Temple Recommend to a worker stationed near the entrance inside the building, the patron repairs to the menís dressing area, where he is assigned a private locker (dividers and a door ensure privacy). After disrobing he covers himself with a "Shield"óa white poncho-like linen covering with a hole in the top for his head and open sides (held shut while walking). Covered in the Shield, he carries one pair of Temple Garments (one-piece style) to the Washing and Anointing area, and waits on a bench until directed by a temple worker to enter one of the Washing and Anointing booths through a veiled partition. The booths are simply small cubicles made up of suspended lined veils.
When called for, the initiate enters the booth and hands his Garments to a worker who places them on a towel rod. As the initiate stands upright in his Shield the temple worker wets his fingers under s small faucet of running water in the booth, and lightly touches each area of the initiateís body through the open sides of the Shield.
Brother _______, having authority, I wash you preparatory to you receiving your anointings [for and in behalf of _______ (patron and then temple worker read name of deceased), who is dead], that you may become clean from the blood and sins of this generation. I wash your head, that your brain and your intellect may be clear and active; your ears, that you may hear the word of the Lord; your eyes, that you may see clearly and discern between truth and error; your nose, that you may smell; your lips, that you may never speak guile; your neck, that it may bear up your head properly; your shoulders, that they may bear the burdens that shall be placed thereon; your back, that there may be marrow in the bones and in the spine; your breast, that it may be the receptacle of pure and virtuous principles; your vitals and bowels, that they may be healthy and strong and perform their proper functions; your arms and hands, that they may be strong and wield the sword of justice in defense of truth and virtue; your loins, that you may be fruitful and multiply and replenish the earth, that you might have joy and rejoicing in your posterity; your legs and feet, that you might run and not be weary, and walk and not faint.
(Females undergo a similar ritual, attended to by females, which includes the following, "Sister _______, having authority, I wash you preparatory to your receiving your anointings [for and in behalf of _______, who is dead], and whereas you have obeyed the principles of the Gospel of Jesus Christ with a true and honest heart, and have been faithful in keeping your covenants, your sins are forgiven and you are clean every whit. I wash your head that your brain and your intellect may be clear and active in discerning between truth and error, and that you may be filled with the spirit of the Lord..." etc.)
Two temple workers then place their hands upon the patronís head and one of them recites the Confirmation of the Washing.
CONFIRMATION OF THE WASHING
Brother _______, having authority, we lay our hands upon your head [for and in behalf of _______(patron and then temple worker read name of deceased), who is dead], and seal upon you this washing, that you may become clean from the blood and sins of this generation through your faithfulness, in the name of Jesus Christ. Amen.
The patron then steps through a veiled partition into another part of the booth where he sits upon a chair. He is anointed with scented olive oil from a glass anointing horn. During the anointing, the body parts are lightly touched as they are mentioned, as was done in the washing.
Brother _______, having authority, I pour this holy anointing oil upon your head [for and in behalf of _______ (patron and then temple worker read name of deceased), who is dead], and anoint you preparatory to your becoming a King and a Priest unto the Most High God, hereafter to rule and reign in the House of Israel forever. I anoint your head, that your brain and your intellect may be clear and active; your ears, that you may hear the word of the Lord; your eyes, that you may see clearly and discern between truth and error; your nose, that you may smell; your lips, that you may never speak guile; your neck, that it may bear up your head properly; your shoulders, that they may bear the burdens that shall be placed thereon; your back, that there may be marrow in the bones and in the spine; your breast, that it may be the receptacle of pure and virtuous principles; your vitals and bowels, that they may be healthy and strong and perform their proper functions; your arms and hands, that they may be strong and wield the sword of justice in defense of truth and virtue; your loins, that you may be fruitful and multiply and replenish the earth, that you might have joy and rejoicing in your posterity; your legs and feet, that you might run and not be weary, and walk and not faint.
The Anointing is then confirmed, as was the Washing, by the two temple workers.
CONFIRMATION OF THE ANOINTING
Brother _______, having authority, we lay our hands upon your head [for and in behalf of _______ (patron and then temple worker read name of deceased), who is dead], and confirm upon you this anointing, wherewith you have been anointed in the temple of our God, preparatory to becoming a King and a Priest unto the Most High God, hereafter to rule and reign in the House of Israel forever, and seal upon you all the blessings hereunto appertaining, through your faithfulness, in the name of Jesus Christ. Amen.
The patron now steps through a third veiled partition into another section of the booth. A temple worker takes the Garments off the towel rod and holds them open wide at the neck, for the patron to step into (right leg, left leg). It is then pulled up the sides of his body and he slips his right arm and left arms through the sleeves.
|Date:||Aug 20 20:55|
|I guess this part worked when it was done to me.....
"your eyes, that you may see clearly and discern between truth and error"
Maybe that's why I'm an exmo. I wonder if the temple workers know they are helping to create exmos?
|Date:||Aug 21 06:47|
|All this is really a big bunch of crapola...except, as you say, ...that your brain and your intellect may be clear and active;...your eyes, that you may see clearly and discern between truth and error.... and these are the 2 things that make the members understand the truth or lack of truth in this diabolical temple and Mormon Church. The world's great LIE, FRAUD!|
|Subject:||What of the Red Tent?|
|Date:||Aug 21 21:38|
|Are menstruating women allowed into the Temple wearing pads or tampons under their shields, or are they considered "unclean" and forced to remain in the red tent?|
|Subject:||When I first went to the temple..|
|Date:||Aug 22 00:23|
|Author:||resident of the Red Tent|
|I was 14, and doing baptisms. I was on a youth temple trip and the YW were told that we should not participate if we were menstruating. I carried this w/ me into adulthood, until another sister (a convert, and more vocal and liberal) told me that it was fine to participate while on your period. I don't know what the official position is, and if the temple workers were speaking as the Lord's representatives or as women...|
|Subject:||It is an evil cult.|
|Date:||Aug 22 01:13|
|I've heard this before and it's still shocking to me
that people would actually allow this, and not press charges.
I'm so glad I figured out it was all a scam before I had to do that. There is no way I could have stripped down and allowed them to touch me like that. I have a huge personal space bubble. I would have bolted for the door. Creeps me out just thinking about it. The only one I want to get naked touchy feely with is with a cute live-in girlfriend.. Not some old dude with roaming fingers and vegetable oil. That's just not right. They make all the adult members do this or they can't get into 'heaven'?
|Subject:||Naked Touching II: Old Men Gone Wild|
|Date:||Aug 22 11:36|
|The thread on "naked touching" in the
temple reminded me of something I had completely forgotten. Tyson Dunn's
excellent explanation of the initiatory ordinance triggered my memory:
While reading Dunn's post, I recalled an incident that occurred to one of the missionaries in the MTC in the Provo temple.
One morning the guys in my room all went to the Provo temple to do temple work. At the last minute, we decided to do initiatories instead of doing an endowment session.
Instead of taking in an endowment session where we'd get to sit across the room from a bunch of veiled women, we spent two hours almost naked getting touched by old men.
And it gets worse!
It's weird enough going through the intiatory ordinance ONCE for your own endowment. But doing a two-hour initiatory session for the dead is borderline traumatic, especially for four young missionaries.
I got through it without much touching, despite going around and around from little cubicle to little cubicle with my little poncho-think constantly flapping open.
But when we completed the session, one of the Elders with us came out of there completely white. He had this shocked look on his face as if something bad had happened to him. He refused to tell us what was wrong and stayed very quiet the rest of the day.
A few days later he told me what happened. He said every time he went through the initiatory, one of the old men stroked his private parts with the oil. Strange, since this didn't happen to any of the rest of us, just him. He said he was so shocked and scared and he was in the temple, that he didn't know what to do. So he just let the old man keep doing it.
Maybe he was making it up, but he sure looked shook up. I've never heard anyone else have this experience in the temple, but there's no way any of us would have ever done an initiatory session again.
|Subject:||Just close your eyes, pretend ..... [more inside]|
|Date:||Aug 22 12:13|
|I still remember vividly the words he spoke to me
(whispering to me tenderly that I was his first):
"Health in the navel;
Marrow in the bones;
Strength in the loins and in the sinews
Power in the Priesthood Be Upon Your Posterity..."
The initiatory ordinance needs to be described in exquisite detail in the pre-baptism missionary discussion:
"You must now pay us 10% of your income for the rest of your life, so that you can buy admission into the temple for the privilege of getting naked and having an old geezer touch your private parts with oil.
"See, it doesn't matter how moral you are, how completely virtuous you may be in word, thought, and deed, if you don't receive the holy Naked-Touching in the temple, as well as secret handshakes and passwords. No, these rituals override your personal worthiness, your character, your deeds.
"Paying us lots of money for a recommend so that you can obtain the sacred Naked-Touching is the ONLY way God will let you see him again. Swearing an oath to allow yourself to be gruesomely executed, while pantomiming your own gruesome death is the highest degree of the gospel taught by Jesus.
"John wasn't fully forthcoming when he said 'God is Love': God isn't just Love; God is Secret Passwords and Handshakes! The Gospel of Jesus Christ is that all mankind can return to live with God if they pay for the privilege of getting Naked-Touching!"
Somehow, I'm betting that most converts are not taught this "fullness" of the gospel.......
There ought to be a full-disclosure lawsuit in here somewhere for not being informed that your participation in the secret ritual would require you to submit to sexual harassment.
In the scientific research world, this kind of abuse would get slaughtered by an Institutional Review Board on the grounds of violation of standard requirements for Protection of Human Subjects.
Did any of you sign a waiver, or notice of full prior disclosure prior to attending your initiatory ordinance, explaining that you were advised you would have to get naked, and then AFTER you were already naked (and therefore, feeling entirely vulnerable), have a stranger touch your groin?
I know I didn't.
|Subject:||To the contrary: they promised me there was no nakedness|
|Date:||Aug 22 13:02|
|Nor was it ever mentioned in Temple Prep classes.
Just another Mormon misnomer: Temple _Prep_ that doesn't QUITE prepare you for the violation of personal boundaries that will occur.
In fact, I was so unprepared for the temple that I took brand new white silk undies with me. The shivers hit when my "companion" (a new RM sis) said, "Oh, you aren't gonna need those - ever again". What the....??????
|Subject:||The Mormon Church has screwed it up again!!!|
|Date:||Aug 22 12:49|
|My cursory reading of the gospel tells me that our
exemplar and Lord, Jesus the Christ, was not washed and anointed by some
'ol geezer in the Temple of Jerusalem, but instead had his washing and
anointing performed by Mary the Magdalene, the apostle he was said to
have loved more than the others and the one he is said to have kissed on
If the Mormon Church really wants to restore Jesus' Church, they need to require that initiates bring their beloveds into those little cubicles to perform the washings and anointings the way Jesus did. I bet this restoration of the TRUE gospel would increase the popularity of having one's head anointed with the "oil of gladness" and receiving one's endowed priesthood. Instead of pleading with members to attend the Temples, the Mormon Church would have problems keeping people away.
I'm sure Joseph Smith would have approved of performing the washings and anointings this way. It seems to be more in keeping with his style.
Added Jan. 2005
Subject: I want to hear from people who are "touched", if any! (Temple Initiation)
Date: Jan 20 08:01 2005
However spooky and uncomfortable that process was there was not touching. In fact I called my ex wife, who also is inactive, she did not remember intrusion of that sort. I agree the whole process is whacko, uncomfortable and so invasive that you want to block it from your mind forever.
If any of you touched I would like to hear about it.
Subject: I was totally touched.
Date: Jan 20 21:07
This is a joke?
I went through the temple for the first time several years ago. For my initiatory, I was told to strip naked put on the shield and walk into the initiatory room. Me and another guy (who was going through for the first time) sat on a cold stone bench trying to hold both sides of the shield closed--we were both pretty red-faced and uncomfortable. I have a "hey, dude" to him and we both stared at the floor.
My turn came up and I stepped into what was almost like a showere stall with curtains on all sides. This old guy came in and recited the script from the ordinance. The guy reached in and touched me really firmly with his finger about six inches above my penis on my front side. I think this was done twice (once with water and again with oil?). It has been awhile, but I was naked under a shield with open sides. I guy reached in and touched me twice about six inches above my penis. He was obvious looking where to touch me (either to avoid accidently touching my penis or to catch a glimpse of it.)
I was, in fact, touched. I was also exposed to the old man when I stood in the stall and even more so when he reached into the shield. After I walked out of the initiatory room, my father led me back to my locker stall where I got dressed for the movie part. I was really freaked out and wanted to leave, but everyone acted like everything was ok. So I pretended like I was ok and went through the rest of the ceremony. I never did the initiatories again.
Subject: Did you read my answer to your specific question to me? If not, here it is.
Date: Jan 20 21:11
To say that no one was touched on their bare skin under a flimsy sheet/tunic, in the Washing and Anointing Ordinance, is completely false.
The whole point of the ordinance is the symbolic washing and anointing and the body is touched in several places by the ordinance worker.
Read this. It is 100% factual.
[edit ] Detailed descriptions...OK here goes... My temple history recap and memories of Washing and Anointing...Re:My Q. is: when/where did you take your endowment, and were you touched?
I went to the temple for the first time in August of 1962. I had been a member just over a year.
That was the ceremony up to 1984. You can find it on line.
After a year, (I refused to go again for at least that long)
I felt extremely pressured by the BYU married ward we were in to go to another temple. So, I did.
I have done somewhere between 300 to 400 "sessions" in several temples in the USA (Logan, Manti, SLC, Provo,Wash DC, LA, to name a few) and in one in Europe (Swis). The last time I attended was in the middle 90's, after the 1990 changes.
As a long time musician and dramatist, I easily memorized the whole ceremony (all of them) word for word. (over 30+ years of temple attendance, averaging two sessions a month). At the time, it presented (to my view) as an old fashioned play done in costumes and the rituals were not to be taken literally.
I married into a long time TBM family, going back to Joseph Smith days. I am personally acquainted with dozens of Mormons that attended the temple from the early 1900's on.
I have met many "general authorities" over the years, especially when we lived in Utah during the 1960's.
Some were speakers at our "Firesides" in our local homes, such as Boyd K Packer, Bruce R McConkie, and dozens of others.
We lived in Utah in the 1960's where the temple garments were bought "over the counter" at Penny's. I usually went to the one in Provo for the official underwear.
I have posted extensively on the Role of Women in Mormonism and the Temple Washing and Anointing.Tis is part of a prior post on the subject.
Memories of washing and anointing rituals.
The washing and anointing rituals are only required the first time you go to the temple now as these ordinances are done in blocks by people who do only those kinds of sessions.
If you go through as proxy for any dead relative, you must do the washing and anointing along with it. Years ago, we did the washing and anointing and the endowment session for the same name all in one evening. Sometimes doing two sessions doing it all for two deceased people.
I can still see the rows of tiny lockers where we completely undressed and donned the sheet tunic, carrying our long temple garments (one piece underwear like a "union suit") into the little cubical where the old lady awaited me.
You enter a small stall, and sit on a cold marble type slab. The female temple worker doing the washing and anointing stands behind and to the side of you and starts with the top of the head, the forehead, the eyes, nose, mouth, breast, bowels, legs..etc.
She has a little spigot she gets water from that drips slowly. The oil is done in the same fashion. Nothing untoward, of a sexual nature is done, (at least not in my experience) but it is ethically and culturally out of order. How anyone can equate that to something spiritual amazes me.
I can still see, hear and feel and smell those old women. They were a little like your grandma; dressed in a white uniform, false teeth clacking, chewing a breath mint. I could feel their breath and smell the aroma of the mints as she whispered in my ear, reaching under the sheet with those warm, sweaty, damp hands sliding over here and over there, anointing me first with dabs of water from head to toe, then going the same thing with oil.
I can still hear the water trickling from the tiny spigot that she put her hands into to begin the anointing. I can still hear the sing-song monotone of her memorized washing and anointing dialogue.
Sometimes, I had to stifle a giggle as the old woman inadvertently tickled me and I squirmed.
I tried to sit very still so she would not slide her wet, warm oily hand anywhere it ought not to be as her face was averted outside the sheet and she could not see where she had her hands.
Sometimes she slid her hands within inches of my breasts and pubic hair as she slid her hands around in her predetermined and well practiced path.
I always hated that part and would shudder when she slide those warm, oily hands down my legs onto my feet.
There are promises given, with each part of the body that is washed-dabbed with water and anointed-dabbed with oil. The promises have to do with promising the female that she will be a priestess to her husband etc.
(These have been posted on this forum and they are easily found on line.)
When she finished, she would help me step into my new temple underwear, (in past years it was a pair of old fashioned temple garments that covered the body from ankle to wrist to neck), while still wearing that sheet tunic, adjusting it properly. I always had the feeling she wanted to kiss me, she was so pleased. I often got a a little hug. I still shudder.
Then she sent me out into the dressing area with our lockers where dozens of other women were coming and going.
Here, we got completely dressed and attached the keys to the locker on our dress someplace where they giggled quietly, sometimes the only sound head while walking down the halls in our white slippers on well carpeted floors.
How does the Mormon church get old Mormon men and women to believe it is a sacred ordinance to touch your bare skin under a sheet with little dabs of water then oil while you sit in a small cubicle?
The part that is so unethical and disrespectful is that no one tells the new initiate anything ahead of time.
You go and do what dozens of other people are doing. It is very difficult to leave once you get in the temple. It can be done, I know, I have watched people do it, but it is rare.
This is group pressure at it's most intense.
Under no other circumstances would anyone even dare to consider that you would strip naked, put on a shield (sheeting made in the style of a tunic or poncho) as it is called, carry your underwear and go into a small room alone with someone you do not know while they whisper memorized dialogue, usually with a breath mint in their mouth then help dress you in the official temple garment to be worn day and night for the rest of your life.
Originally, this was a complete washing and anointing, similar to some other religious customs.
What we will do in the name of pleasing the Mormon God!
Subject: was repeatedly touched.
Date: Jan 20 21:14
Not only was I touched during my initiatory....
but I KNOW I was not 'mistaken' or having a 'false memory' because my 2 friends and I used to actually go to the temple for hours and do initiatories for the dead! I went round and round in the little booths until I thought I would faint, being touched over and over until the oil was dripping down my body in certain spots. Yes, I had a sheet over me, open on the sides, and yes, a little old lady reached under the sheet with her COLD bony hands and touched my naked body. When she would bend and touch my legs her face was almost in my lap. When she anointe my breasts she touched above the breast area but when she anointed my vitals and bowels she often inadvertently brushed my breasts or nipples. IT WAS VERY UNCOMFORTABLE.
So yeah. Naked touching.
Subject: I was totally touched.
Date: Jan 20 21:26
"I guy reached in and touched me twice about six inches above my penis."
Whoa! It's a good thing the penis wasn't standing erect! Otherwise guess what he would have been annointing and touching!
Subject: 1970, SLC temple
Date: Jan 20 21:20
Author: Stray Mutt
I was naked except for the holy poncho. I was touched briefly, discretely, on several parts of my body, including at about 9 o'clock from Mr. Winkie, about 3 inches away.
Subject: I was wearing a drafty poncho, an old lady approached me
Date: Jan 20 21:42
with oil dripping from her fingers, she mumbled "health to
the navel, blah blah blah, marrow to the bones, or something like that, she was saying her lines like a robot, she touched me as she talked, her fingers were cold and I got the intense feeling that she was so very very bored. I was scared of where else she would touch me, I had no idea that I would be touched by anyone, especially
by an old woman with arthritic fingers and a no nonsense
Subject: This web site has a very good account of the Washing and Anointing Ordinance.
Date: Jan 20 22:02
The other pages cover the rest of the rituals.
Subject: It is my observation that those who claim no memory of "touching" in the temple do so
Date: Jan 20 23:07
because of the nature of the event.
The pressure, especially when getting married; the new, unusual, strange experiences in the temple that impose complete compliance can leave most of that wedding day a complete blank in a bride or groom's mind.
The second reason for claiming no "touching" in the temple is denial and protection of their claimed sacred ordinances because they are so pressured to not divulge it (those death threats were pretty powerful) they either cannot even admit their experience to themselves, let alone anyone else.
I have walked out of the temple with a temple patron in our party and remarked about noticing changes, and they claim claim there were no changes. Mind boggling.
Maybe it is a hypnotic experience for some patrons. They are in a daze, they do not recall what they did and are in some kind of imposed state of denial.
Whatever it is, denial of being touched on their naked skin by temple ordinance workers (strangers) in the temple by TBM's is quite common.
Or else, they blatantly lie on purpose!
Subject: SuzieQ -- "Denial of touching of naked skin is quite common by TBM's"
Date: Jan 20 23:16
Author: Soulful Thinker
So what gives? Why is it so common for them to deny it? Indeed, it is truly mind boggling.
I have yet to grasp how they can and do deny it. I mean sheesh, I have been through the temple and I KNOW that they do it.
So, if they can deny point blank blatantly provable facts, then ofcourse they can dismiss any logic we throw at them regarding church history or the con-man Joseph Smith.
Subject: Re: SuzieQ -- "Denial of touching of naked skin is quite common by TBM's"
Date: Jan 20 23:22
Denial, memory loss, cognitive dissonance, pressure, fear, etc. I have no idea what is wrong with people.
My experience is that not once in 30+ yrs of going to the temple did anyone admit a thing. If I even brought up something that was said or done in the temple, people became quiet, told me they could not discuss it, and would not even voice an opinion about something that had nothing to do with the ordinances. I always thought it was very strange behavior.
Now as a Former Mormon, I encounter TBM's who deny all of it.
Maybe they are protecting their "worthiness" out of fear of loosing a place in the CK!
Subject: touched in Provo 1975.
Date: Jan 20 23:45
I still remember the "pancho" thing and trying to keep it closed. I was touched by some grey haired old guy mumbling about loins and sinews.
I never did intititory again, and the were always trying to get us to sign up in EQ.
Subject: We were all touched. Do you know anybody who WASN'T???
Date: Jan 20 23:53
My personal experience was 1983 in the Washington DC temple. Absolutely I was touched. That's the way it was done up until this week. I went back for endowments for the dead but I never wanted to do another initiatory after my own. It was extremely embarrassing and uncomfortable.
Subject: Swizerland 1983
Date: Jan 20 23:56
I was washed and anointed as described by most people here. When it was time to have my "loins" washed the old guy touched me on the base of my back. I was a bit nervous because I had read the endowment already but did not know exactly where I'd be touched..although I knew that I would be touched. I was very relieved that I didn't get groped. It was done very discretely but it was still quite uncomfortable.
Subject: Re: I want to hear from people who are "touched", if any! (Temple Initiation)
Date: Jan 21 00:31
I was "initiated" in 1983 in Idaho Falls.
Of course I was touched. That is the whole reason that the "shield" which was like a poncho; was open on the sides.
It was open because the temple worker had to physically reach in and touch certain areas with water, then with oil.
I seem to remember the "loins", which meant touching on the top of the ass area. The shoulders, maybe the knees....I can't really remember them all. I don't remember any genital touching, I think just above the pubic area.
It was kind of freaky but in a droning, somewhat perfunctory, paternalistic and gentle, but beuracratic way. And the touching was always a single light touch with a finger.
The whole day was so weird, I was told upon emerging from the veil: "you're one of us now"
Thinking back now,,,it was like that scene in "Rosemary's Baby"! The one at the end where Rosemary is looking around the room at all the faces of her neighbors who were familiar, but now she was seeing them in a whole new terrifying but oddly bland and nerdy way!
Something about it kind of reminds me of "Wicker Man" too...CREEPY!
Subject: Quinlansolo, you're full of crap. I've gone through 91 repetitions.
Date: Jan 21 00:33
Author: Tyson Dunn
My own endowment: January 1992. After the mission in 1994, a trip to the DC temple to help a friend's family and did three sets of 30.
Your denial is as scummy as the Mormon apologists. If you are endowed (which I'm beginning to doubt) someone put your garment on you that you stepped into and zipped up the front, and before that you were washed and anointed by touching.
Subject: Look at these web sites -- is the memory coming back now??? :-)
Date: Jan 21 00:39
Articles Necessary for Temple Initiatory Work (Washings and Anointings)
Special regalia (ritual clothing) is needed for temple work. In order to participate in the Initiatory Work one needs a Shield and a Garment.
The Shield is a poncho-like covering. It is made by folding a rectangular piece fabric (such as terry cloth, or cotton flannel) in half, and cutting a circular opening at the fold for the patrons head to fit through. It reaches about eight inches from the floor on both sides, and covers the front and back sides. The sides are open, and are held closed by the patron. Prior to receiving the Washings and Anointings the patron removes all clothing and puts on the shield in the privacy of a locker. The temple worker performing the Washings and Anointings touches the partron's various body parts as they are mentioned in special blessing s/he recites. It must be understood that all Washings and Anointings are performed in sexually segregated rooms.
AND - see photo's of shields, etc.:
Subject: Re: I want to hear from people who are "touched", if any! (Temple Initiation)
Date: Jan 21 00:50
Author: Oh Please
I was a temple worker and a regular attendee. They did touch the patrons. What do you think the whole oil thing was for? Didn't you walk out of there with oil on several places on your body? If not, they did not do their job. Too bad you can't go back and have the experience again. End of an era.
Subject: No doubt about it!
Date: Jan 21 03:25
I was touched on all the places mentioned by other posters and my breast was also grazed a few times. I was pretty much in a daze due to the weirdness of it all, but I never forgot the touching or the horrible breath...
Mormon Temple additional topics
|13. Non-Mormon and Garments||15. Temple Divorces|
|19. Feel Ugly in Temple Clothing?||32. The Changing Temple|
|33. First Time to the Temple||42. Washing and Anointing|
|44. Stopped wearing garments||66. Secret or Sacred?|
|127 Temple Marriage Ceremony||155 New Names Given in the Temple|
|165 Not allowed to the Temple Wedding||169 Can Temple Ordinances be Changed?|
|234 Changing Rules? Temple Marriages||238 She Can't Stand The Temple|
|243 Temple Hype Versus Reality||285 First Time to Temple II|
|288. Protestant Minister Pre-1990 Endowment||293 Excluded from Children's Wedding|
|301 Speaking Publicly about the Temple||306 Temples are Running out of Names|
|331 The Temple Endowment not Changed per Apologist||339 Temple Marriage vs. Traditional|
|359 Canceling a Temple Sealing|