Recovery Board  : RfM
Recovery from Mormonism (RfM) discussion forum. 

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6 years ago
MJ
So are we not allowed to disagree with Don's claims about what God said?
Forum: Recovery Board
6 years ago
MJ
If you have something to say about WHAT I have said, say it. Otherwise, I reject your personal attacks.,
Forum: Recovery Board
6 years ago
MJ
This is not a hijack, this is a legitimate disagreement with the claim "This is what God would say". My understanding is that we are free to disagree with claims about what god would or does say. I would have to reject such a letter. I do not see it as the beautiful ideas as others. I do not believe a LOVING god would send such a letter to me while allowing so much suffering. I woul
Forum: Recovery Board
6 years ago
MJ
as hijacking. From the guidelines: "This site is Christian-friendly. It is not, however, Christian-safe. Do not assume that everyone here will share your beliefs; other posters can and will disagree with and challenge what you say. If you decide that you need a site that is Christian-safe as well, we can recommend some places." Though this is not about Christianity, is this a
Forum: Recovery Board
6 years ago
MJ
Interesting, but I, for myself, was not talking about the person, only the idea. The OP may or may not need a hug, I see no reason to assume they need a hug or not in order to be critical of what I consider a very bad idea. I also wonder why so many here make assumptions about other people.
Forum: Recovery Board
6 years ago
MJ
I have already made my decision, I would be honest during the Jury selection process, I would not be allowed on the Jury. Any one that is honest and answers one way or the other would also not be allowed on the Jury.
Forum: Recovery Board
6 years ago
MJ
I wounder if God would say the same thing to the parents of children that as starving to death because, though no fault of the parents, there are no resources to feed the children. Or would God right the same letter to the Children.
Forum: Recovery Board
6 years ago
MJ
I find that people who have "found God" then go around speaking how the "found god" often have no idea that they are preaching. I also have found that many that have found god don't recognize preaching. Another thing I have found is that the admins are very good at identifying preaching.
Forum: Recovery Board
6 years ago
MJ
But it sounds like it might have been considered preaching, which is also prohibited. I do not understand how you could have known that it was thoughtful and not political if you had not read it.
Forum: Recovery Board
6 years ago
MJ
I would say that the "monumental shift" you talk about has already happened and gay marriage is already accepted by the mainstream. The problem is, as I have stated before in regards to the LDS, the change has happened so fast, that governing bodies are lagging behind. The change in society has happened, changing the entrenched bureaucracies will follow.
Forum: Recovery Board
6 years ago
MJ
And if you look at Europe as a whole, 1/2 of the nations have gay marriage, while over 2/3 of the states of the USA have gay marriage.
Forum: Recovery Board
6 years ago
MJ
And notice that you said all that without ranting that it was all about gays. This issues with TSCC is NOT ABOUT GAYS, it is a systemic issue affecting everyone.
Forum: Recovery Board
6 years ago
MJ
The issues regarding leaving a cult are the same for EVERYONE. Singling out the gays for having trouble leaving a cult is intellectually dishonest, not to mention your continuously moving the goal posts is pathetic. I have addressed your questions over and over and all you do is back away from previous stance to get to the point of saying, well maybe some can't get out. MAYBE. It is clear
Forum: Recovery Board
6 years ago
MJ
Not until you answer my question: Why do you thing TSCC will not change when it has already changed its doctrine because of societal pressure from both inside and outside TSCC? The fact that it is a difficult choice does not mean it is not a choice people are forced to make difficult choices of all kinds not related to TSCC. Bottom line, TSCC has changed and it will continue to change reg
Forum: Recovery Board
6 years ago
MJ
You asked me why I thing things would get better, not if I think they are perfect. I explained why I think things will get better. The only real reason things are not getting better is because the same people have been in charge for the last 15 year, when most of the change for gays nationally has taken place. Most of the change has been with the youth, both in and out of TSCC. It will take some
Forum: Recovery Board
6 years ago
MJ
flyinghigh Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > Why do you think things will get better, > especially for young gay youth in the Mormon > church? Because they already have gotten better. Conversion therapy has stopped. They have stopped kicking people out just for having same sex attraction. TSCC used to prevent ANY state wide protections. Th
Forum: Recovery Board
6 years ago
MJ
Again, the USA is in the top 11% of countries in regards to the advancement of gay marriage. If you want to bitch about anti-gay religions and governments, there you may want to look at the 89% behind the USA and many that are nowhere near the USA's leadership positions.
Forum: Recovery Board
6 years ago
MJ
Religion will lose any ability to harm gays in any significant way. Their fight against gays is one of the main reason we are seeing people leaving organized religion in the USA. There are many here that have left TSCC because of TSCC's anti-gay stance. The USA is in the top 11% of countries world wide when it comes to leadership in regards to gay marriage. This is true even if we accept your
Forum: Recovery Board
6 years ago
MJ
Because you say you live in fear because you are gay I do not live in fear (which is different than personal strength). It is a difference I see between you and me, which may suggest a possible reason we are treated different. As I said above, not having fear is not the same as having personal strength. Many people show great personal strength in over coming their fears. That is not wh
Forum: Recovery Board
6 years ago
MJ
I have been abused and attacked for reasons other than being gay, but not for being gay, not even in Utah. All the Utah Mormons I know and work with are just fine with me being gay. Many have changed their minds on gay marriage because of me. Perhaps it is because people do not sense any fear (thus a vulnerability) in me.
Forum: Recovery Board
6 years ago
MJ
I do not know any gay or lesbian that thinks the ruling will apply to religious institutions. So, if the ruling does not affect religious institutions, I doubt there will be many shocked gays and lesbians. BTW, the informed know that gays and lesbians are fighting for CIVIL not RELIGIOUS recondition of marriages.
Forum: Recovery Board
6 years ago
MJ
Ah, now you are talking about a segregated institution as if it were a good thing. The idea that NZ had straight only marriages, and a second class inferior institution for gay is similar the segregated south in the USA. Please do not try to make me think that holding gays to an inferior institution is anything but suppression of gays. ANd NZ is far from free of bigots http://www.nzhe
Forum: Recovery Board
6 years ago
MJ
Now out and open in Utah and have seen no reason to fear. But to claim there was never discrimination in NZ is simply not true, by the poster's own admission. To claim there is no anti-gay bigotry in NZ would also not be true: http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=10860634
Forum: Recovery Board
6 years ago
MJ
Only about 9.7% of the countries of the world have gay marriage. The USA would make it about 10%. I would hardly say that make the USA "backwards". Then if you count countries that allow gay marriage in some jurisdictions, the USA would be in the 11% of countries that allow gay marriage in at least part of the country. No, sorry, I do not see the claim of "backward" is v
Forum: Recovery Board
6 years ago
MJ
So, you are saying that a "couple of years ago" NZ did discriminate against gays in regards to getting married, then go on to say that "being gay here has never ever been an issue". Sorry either being gay was "never an issue" and gays could always marry, or it has been an issue in the past.
Forum: Recovery Board
6 years ago
MJ
An avid cigar smoker is almost certainly at more risk than a cigarette smoker that is NOT an avid cigarette smoker. But hey, stick with your denial of that.
Forum: Recovery Board
6 years ago
MJ
Only about 9.7% of the countries of the world have gay marriage. The USA would make it about 10%. I would hardly say that make the USA "backwards". Then if you count countries that allow gay marriage in some jurisdictions, the USA would be in the 11% of countries that allow gay marriage in at least part of the country. No, sorry, I do not see the claim of "backward" is v
Forum: Recovery Board
6 years ago
MJ
Sorry, but I DO know people that smoke far less cigarettes than many cigar smokers. As you claim, it depends how they are smoked, thus with these people cigarettes are less harmful for some than are cigars. You simply can not say that cigars are always the safer option, because it depends on how they are smoked. If a person smokes fewer cigarettes than they do cigars, it is likely that ci
Forum: Recovery Board
6 years ago
MJ
29. Deleted
n/t
Forum: Recovery Board
6 years ago
MJ
n/t
Forum: Recovery Board