Disturbing Visiting Teacher Message Jan. 2012

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  • user warning: Table './exmo_08072012/cache_filter' is marked as crashed and should be repaired query: UPDATE cache_filter SET data = '<p>by Lost Jan 2012</p>\n<p>Very Disturbing VT Message by the LDS Church this month:</p>\n<p><a href=\"http://lds.org/liahona/2012/01/watchcare-and-ministering-through-visiting-teaching?lang=eng\" title=\"http://lds.org/liahona/2012/01/watchcare-and-ministering-through-visiting-teaching?lang=eng\">http://lds.org/liahona/2012/01/watchcare-and-ministering-through-visitin...</a></p>\n<p>They\'ve coined a new phrase: \"watchcare\"</p>\n<p>\"Through visiting teaching, we provide watchcare by contacting each sister, sharing a gospel message, and seeking to know her and her family’s needs.\"</p>\n<p>\"Know her and her family\'s needs?\" Why don\'t they just ASK you if you are ok like normal people do, instead of coming over to your house and SPYING (THEN TATTLING) on you?</p>\n<p>As if that isn\'t enough, there\'s this little gem:</p>\n<p>\"An army of RS sisters is watching you.\"</p>\n<p>Sounds extremely cultish and creepy.</p>\n<hr />\nThe StalkerDog™<br />\nWow!<br />\nCulty, culty, culty!!!\n<p>I thought they were trying to get away from stuff like that...</p>\n<hr />\nnewfreedom<br />\nRe: Disturbing VT Message<br />\nThe second question is, \'How can I be better at watching over and caring for others?\'\n<p>Oh great! Leave it up to the individual member to answer that question. Most will probably ignore it but those few ultra tbm\'s will take it too great extremes.</p>\n<hr />\n<p>Cheryl<br />\nStalking is official policy in the mormon church.&nbsp;</p>\n<hr />\n<p>forbiddencokedrinker<br />\nRe: Disturbing VT Message<br />\nBuy them a large screen TV, then install a hidden camera behind the panel so you can watch everything that goes on in view of their TV screen. This idea brought to you by a Bro Orwell, who is largely thought to be a creative genius when it comes up to effective HT/VT techniques.</p>\n<hr />\nsandie<br />\nFirst thought: Communism. Second thought: Glad I\'m out!&nbsp;\n<hr />\nStray Mutt<br />\nMore pretending to care.<br />\nOr more pressure to care about people you have no real connection to.\n<p>The Church of Latter-day Fakes.</p>\n<hr />\ncaedmon<br />\nRe: More pretending to care.<br />\nThen when the ward boundaries change, these \"friendships\" will disolve and reform accordingly. Those who cared so much won\'t have time for your family anymore.\n<hr />\nCA girl<br />\nThank you, caedmon, exactly<br />\nWhy do they need to know me OR my needs? They aren\'t necessarily my friends. They are assigned by the church to check up on me and give me a monthly brainwashing message. I\'ll admit, last year when I was sick with pneumonia, my VT who lives close by brought in dinner one night w/o it being assigned. She just called and said she was making taco soup and had a lot of extra and would our family like dinner that night. That\'s how my real friends acted, asking me if they could get anything for me when they went to the store, dropping muffins by my house etc. Without it being assigned because they were my friends. I don\'t need assigned friends who will disappear if I quit going to church or the ward boundaries change or they move to the next town over. \'\n<p>What also bothers me is that, as an inactive, they will presume I need to be saved. That is not a need. Needs are what I tell you they are and I probably won\'t tell an assigned friend. I\'m not needy - and I don\'t need a case worker to check up on me.</p>\n<hr />\nWiserWomanNow<br />\nOne of your quotes is inaccurate.<br />\nUsing quotation marks, you presumably quote this from the article: \"An army of RS sisters is watching you.\" I cannot find that sentence in the article. The exact quote is, “Countless are the acts of service provided by the vast army of Relief Society visiting teachers.” IMO there is a difference between these two statements that RfM readers would want to be aware of.\n<p>I apologize for drawing this to your attention, “Lost.” Please know that overall I am glad to be informed about this article and its contents, and I agree with your characterizing the information as “disturbing.”</p>\n<p>Thank you.</p>\n<p>JoD3:360<br />\n+1&nbsp;</p>\n<hr />\nexRSpresident<br />\nRe: Disturbing VT Message<br />\nI always felt a step away from genuine when being a visiting teacher and ached to break through the boundary somehow. I think most of us crave for genuine relationships. I didn\'t realize till I left the church why it was so hard to be real with people while in it, but oh it makes so much sense now. I have become friends with people in a much more profound way since I left the church. It just really made it possible for me to leave, when I realized what was holding me back from loving people as they are.\n<hr />\nguynoirprivateeye<br />\n+1<br />\nthe Key Word there is \'genuine\'.\n<hr />\ndeco<br />\nRe: Disturbing VT Message<br />\nPeople should read more Orwell.\n<hr />\njessica<br />\nRe: Disturbing VT Message<br />\nMy VTers still come (we\'re NOM) and I\'m ok with it because they are fairly nice people, a couple older ladies not to nosy and most of the time the focus is not on the latest message. Once one mentioned some items in a box that had been sitting in the living room since last time..assuming I needed help cleaning up or something because they\'d been there that long. Nope, it was my husband\'s stuff and he promised he would put it away so I left it. It made me a bit more cautious after that comment though to move things around a bit before they get here, like I\'m not a clean enough person or something.\n<hr />\nmia<br />\nRe: Stalking is official policy in the mormon church.<br />\n+1\n<p>mia<br />\nRe: Stalking is official policy in the mormon church.<br />\nTake out the word watchcare and replace it with an appropriate word like STALKING. Now the article rings true and makes more sense.</p>\n<p>I do not want, or need some lady I don\'t want to know \"watching over me\". I consider it stalking when I tell church leaders I want NO contact, and they send someone to my door any way. I consider it stalking when I can\'t do my grocery shopping without being approached by someone from church who follows me around the store talking about church. I consider it stalking when I get at least one phone call every night from people at church. I consider it stalking when they take my son into an office, close the door and grill him about our family business. I consider it stalking when they park on the other side of a locked gate and wait for someone to come so they can give us stuff we don\'t want. I consider it stalking when the bishop writes us a letter and asks us if our attorney really means it when he demands they leave us alone.</p>\n<hr />\nLost<br />\nRe: One of your quotes is inaccurate.<br />\nI\'m sorry, you are correct. I jumped too far there, my bad.\n<p>Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 01/03/2012 03:42PM by Susan I/S.</p>\n<hr />\ndthenonreligious<br />\nNext up....<br />\nThe beatings will continue until morale improves.\n<p>Keep winning, Monson!</p>\n<hr />\nOutcast<br />\nRe: Disturbing VT Message<br />\nFor some reason, every time I read one of these threads it reminds me of the official stalker\'s song by Melissa Etheridge, \"Come to my Window.\"\n<p><a href=\"http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ej8H926Hmaw\" title=\"http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ej8H926Hmaw\">http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ej8H926Hmaw</a></p>\n<hr />\nbaura<br />\nBig Sister Is Watching You<br />\nWAR IS PEACE,\n<p>FREEDOM IS SLAVERY,</p>\n<p>IGNORANCE IS STRENGTH;</p>\n<p>We have ALWAYS been at war with Eastasia.</p>\n<hr />\ncl2<br />\nOr until your VT or HT change to a new set.<br />\nSince I\'ve lived in this ward for 25 years, I had many, many, many VTs. I had a really nice set after I went inactive and my husband left--and then they were going to change them. I said, \"You change them, then don\'t send me VTs anymore.\"\n<p>The LDS church\'s idea is not about friendship--it is all about spying. Luckily my last VT (who I had only her until she died)--wouldn\'t even given out my unlisted number.</p>\n<hr />\n<p>helamonster<br />\nExactly.<br />\nNewspeak is mo-speak.</p>\n<hr />\nmia<br />\nRe: Disturbing VT Message<br />\nThe state I live in has a long definition of stalking.\n<p>The part of the definition that applies to the church and how they are behaving around me and my family is this:</p>\n<p>\"Intentionally and repeatedly harasses or follows another person.\"</p>\n<p>\"KNOWS the person feels harassed even if the stalker did not intend to stalk.</p>\n<p>This describes my relationship with the Mormon church. They have been told, and now informed in writing to leave me and my family alone. To stay off of our property, not talk to or follow us around in public places. They have intentionally and repeatedly harassed us and followed us. They know we feel harassed, even if that wasn\'t their intention. That is the legal technical definition an circumstance between the church and my family. They need to STOP!</p>\n<p>I you are having these same problems, put it in writing and tell them to stop. Document everything. I think if everyone did this they would stop acting the way they do. They would end up with more legal problems than they want to deal with</p>\n<hr />\nvoweaver<br />\nRe: Disturbing VT Message<br />\nThe business about being followed in the grocery store creeps me out! I\'d go straight to the manager and say, \"I feel threatened by this person\'s stalking behavior. Please follow me out to my car and stand there until I drive away.\"\n<p>And drive straight to the police station.</p>\n<p>~VOW</p>\n<hr />\nmatt<br />\nWell, this might not be as bad as it seems. Why?<br />\nBecause if many people are asked: \"Are you OK?\" will reply: \"I am fine.\"\n<p>Not wanting to mention the fact that they have a bad leg that means they can\'t get out to do their shopping, or have a wonky hip that means they really find their chores getting to much for them, and so on.</p>\n<p>From what I have noticed the RS in my mother\'s ward in the UK does a pretty decent job of providing some proper social care for infirm and sick members. Maybe it\'s not the same everywhere.</p>\n<hr />\nCarol Y.<br />\nWhy don\'t they call it the \'See something;say something\' our Orwellian government is instituting in a well known big box store.&nbsp;\n<hr />\nsuckafoo<br />\nRe: Disturbing VT Message<br />\nI think they change VT partners up and who they are assigned up quite often to avoid people getting too buddy buddy. Everything is performed like a business which has \"core values\" and lacks sincerity. I had a VT partner for half a year. She saw me in the grocery store parking lot and ignored me. My Sunday School teacher sat next to me at the hair dressers and pretended not to recognize me. Yes. So sincere.\n<hr />\nipo<br />\nI thot the ultimate stalker song was \"Every Breath You Take\"<br />\n<a href=\"http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TH_YbBHVF4g\" title=\"http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TH_YbBHVF4g\">http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TH_YbBHVF4g</a>\n<p>Oh can\'t you see, you belong to me</p>\n<hr />\nFreeRose<br />\n+1<br />\nNo one will ever do that again. It\'s a breath of fresh air not to have people judging every aspect of my life. Anonimity is awesome.\n<hr />\nalmafudd<br />\nRe: Disturbing VT Message<br />\nI too was disturbed by this month\'s VT message. My never-mo friends know of some of my experiences with home teachers and visiting teachers. They all think it\'s really creepy to have someone assigned to monthly visit your home and report if they hear of any concerns or notice anything. I always say things are fine even if they aren\'t. I don\'t want any part of my life to be any part of their business.\n<p>Several years ago, I had a pair of visiting teachers who got me so stirred up month after month, I called the RS Pres to ask her to assign me and my LDS friend up the street to someone else. Both VTs were very abrasive and opinionated. It\'s my way to try to roll with it and not volunteer much about my personal life. Those sisters would have a 90 minute gripe session between themselves, then they\'d go to visit my friend\'s house. I was glad to see them go because they bummed me out. I knew after their 90 minutes in my friend\'s home, she would be calling me in tears. Month after month, they attacked her for having so many children so close together in age. My friend was no Molly Mormon, nor a simpering wimp. Her ultra TBM husband was a self-centered, condescending jerk and she had problems living up to his expectations. She didn\'t need her VT to badger her about using birth control. It was none of their business!! I do know as a close personal friend, she got a prescription for birth control pills, but her husband thought that was a sin so he withheld sex from her while she was taking the pill. She had enough to deal with and didn\'t need them harping on her.</p>\n<p>Before I go off on a tangent here, I must make my point - I told the RS pres that our VT were making us depressed and tearful. The RS pres said, \"I\'m sorry, I know they\'re not easy to get along with but they really need to have that calling so look at it as being YOUR calling to tolerate them.\"</p>\n<p>The missionaries &amp; TBMs believe that VT is an inspired program for uplifting one another and providing opportunities for service. Bull!! It\'s all about social control, making inflated reports, and bragging rights about service. They fail to see that it isn\'t that enticing to normal people. It\'s invasive and time-wasting. VT and HT rarely comes from real friendship and care.</p>\n<p>\"Recovery from Mormonism - www.exmormon.org\"</p>\n', created = 1618906001, expire = 1618992401, headers = '', serialized = 0 WHERE cid = '2:0454ecd4683088e52585e6cf889e68e3' in /home/exmormon/public_html/d6/drupal/includes/cache.inc on line 112.

by Lost Jan 2012

Very Disturbing VT Message by the LDS Church this month:

http://lds.org/liahona/2012/01/watchcare-and-ministering-through-visitin...

They've coined a new phrase: "watchcare"

"Through visiting teaching, we provide watchcare by contacting each sister, sharing a gospel message, and seeking to know her and her family’s needs."

"Know her and her family's needs?" Why don't they just ASK you if you are ok like normal people do, instead of coming over to your house and SPYING (THEN TATTLING) on you?

As if that isn't enough, there's this little gem:

"An army of RS sisters is watching you."

Sounds extremely cultish and creepy.


The StalkerDog™
Wow!
Culty, culty, culty!!!

I thought they were trying to get away from stuff like that...


newfreedom
Re: Disturbing VT Message
The second question is, 'How can I be better at watching over and caring for others?'

Oh great! Leave it up to the individual member to answer that question. Most will probably ignore it but those few ultra tbm's will take it too great extremes.


Cheryl
Stalking is official policy in the mormon church. 


forbiddencokedrinker
Re: Disturbing VT Message
Buy them a large screen TV, then install a hidden camera behind the panel so you can watch everything that goes on in view of their TV screen. This idea brought to you by a Bro Orwell, who is largely thought to be a creative genius when it comes up to effective HT/VT techniques.


sandie
First thought: Communism. Second thought: Glad I'm out! 
Stray Mutt
More pretending to care.
Or more pressure to care about people you have no real connection to.

The Church of Latter-day Fakes.


caedmon
Re: More pretending to care.
Then when the ward boundaries change, these "friendships" will disolve and reform accordingly. Those who cared so much won't have time for your family anymore.
CA girl
Thank you, caedmon, exactly
Why do they need to know me OR my needs? They aren't necessarily my friends. They are assigned by the church to check up on me and give me a monthly brainwashing message. I'll admit, last year when I was sick with pneumonia, my VT who lives close by brought in dinner one night w/o it being assigned. She just called and said she was making taco soup and had a lot of extra and would our family like dinner that night. That's how my real friends acted, asking me if they could get anything for me when they went to the store, dropping muffins by my house etc. Without it being assigned because they were my friends. I don't need assigned friends who will disappear if I quit going to church or the ward boundaries change or they move to the next town over. '

What also bothers me is that, as an inactive, they will presume I need to be saved. That is not a need. Needs are what I tell you they are and I probably won't tell an assigned friend. I'm not needy - and I don't need a case worker to check up on me.


WiserWomanNow
One of your quotes is inaccurate.
Using quotation marks, you presumably quote this from the article: "An army of RS sisters is watching you." I cannot find that sentence in the article. The exact quote is, “Countless are the acts of service provided by the vast army of Relief Society visiting teachers.” IMO there is a difference between these two statements that RfM readers would want to be aware of.

I apologize for drawing this to your attention, “Lost.” Please know that overall I am glad to be informed about this article and its contents, and I agree with your characterizing the information as “disturbing.”

Thank you.

JoD3:360
+1 


exRSpresident
Re: Disturbing VT Message
I always felt a step away from genuine when being a visiting teacher and ached to break through the boundary somehow. I think most of us crave for genuine relationships. I didn't realize till I left the church why it was so hard to be real with people while in it, but oh it makes so much sense now. I have become friends with people in a much more profound way since I left the church. It just really made it possible for me to leave, when I realized what was holding me back from loving people as they are.
guynoirprivateeye
+1
the Key Word there is 'genuine'.
deco
Re: Disturbing VT Message
People should read more Orwell.
jessica
Re: Disturbing VT Message
My VTers still come (we're NOM) and I'm ok with it because they are fairly nice people, a couple older ladies not to nosy and most of the time the focus is not on the latest message. Once one mentioned some items in a box that had been sitting in the living room since last time..assuming I needed help cleaning up or something because they'd been there that long. Nope, it was my husband's stuff and he promised he would put it away so I left it. It made me a bit more cautious after that comment though to move things around a bit before they get here, like I'm not a clean enough person or something.
mia
Re: Stalking is official policy in the mormon church.
+1

mia
Re: Stalking is official policy in the mormon church.
Take out the word watchcare and replace it with an appropriate word like STALKING. Now the article rings true and makes more sense.

I do not want, or need some lady I don't want to know "watching over me". I consider it stalking when I tell church leaders I want NO contact, and they send someone to my door any way. I consider it stalking when I can't do my grocery shopping without being approached by someone from church who follows me around the store talking about church. I consider it stalking when I get at least one phone call every night from people at church. I consider it stalking when they take my son into an office, close the door and grill him about our family business. I consider it stalking when they park on the other side of a locked gate and wait for someone to come so they can give us stuff we don't want. I consider it stalking when the bishop writes us a letter and asks us if our attorney really means it when he demands they leave us alone.


Lost
Re: One of your quotes is inaccurate.
I'm sorry, you are correct. I jumped too far there, my bad.

Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 01/03/2012 03:42PM by Susan I/S.


dthenonreligious
Next up....
The beatings will continue until morale improves.

Keep winning, Monson!


Outcast
Re: Disturbing VT Message
For some reason, every time I read one of these threads it reminds me of the official stalker's song by Melissa Etheridge, "Come to my Window."

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ej8H926Hmaw


baura
Big Sister Is Watching You
WAR IS PEACE,

FREEDOM IS SLAVERY,

IGNORANCE IS STRENGTH;

We have ALWAYS been at war with Eastasia.


cl2
Or until your VT or HT change to a new set.
Since I've lived in this ward for 25 years, I had many, many, many VTs. I had a really nice set after I went inactive and my husband left--and then they were going to change them. I said, "You change them, then don't send me VTs anymore."

The LDS church's idea is not about friendship--it is all about spying. Luckily my last VT (who I had only her until she died)--wouldn't even given out my unlisted number.


helamonster
Exactly.
Newspeak is mo-speak.


mia
Re: Disturbing VT Message
The state I live in has a long definition of stalking.

The part of the definition that applies to the church and how they are behaving around me and my family is this:

"Intentionally and repeatedly harasses or follows another person."

"KNOWS the person feels harassed even if the stalker did not intend to stalk.

This describes my relationship with the Mormon church. They have been told, and now informed in writing to leave me and my family alone. To stay off of our property, not talk to or follow us around in public places. They have intentionally and repeatedly harassed us and followed us. They know we feel harassed, even if that wasn't their intention. That is the legal technical definition an circumstance between the church and my family. They need to STOP!

I you are having these same problems, put it in writing and tell them to stop. Document everything. I think if everyone did this they would stop acting the way they do. They would end up with more legal problems than they want to deal with


voweaver
Re: Disturbing VT Message
The business about being followed in the grocery store creeps me out! I'd go straight to the manager and say, "I feel threatened by this person's stalking behavior. Please follow me out to my car and stand there until I drive away."

And drive straight to the police station.

~VOW


matt
Well, this might not be as bad as it seems. Why?
Because if many people are asked: "Are you OK?" will reply: "I am fine."

Not wanting to mention the fact that they have a bad leg that means they can't get out to do their shopping, or have a wonky hip that means they really find their chores getting to much for them, and so on.

From what I have noticed the RS in my mother's ward in the UK does a pretty decent job of providing some proper social care for infirm and sick members. Maybe it's not the same everywhere.


Carol Y.
Why don't they call it the 'See something;say something' our Orwellian government is instituting in a well known big box store. 
suckafoo
Re: Disturbing VT Message
I think they change VT partners up and who they are assigned up quite often to avoid people getting too buddy buddy. Everything is performed like a business which has "core values" and lacks sincerity. I had a VT partner for half a year. She saw me in the grocery store parking lot and ignored me. My Sunday School teacher sat next to me at the hair dressers and pretended not to recognize me. Yes. So sincere.
ipo
I thot the ultimate stalker song was "Every Breath You Take"
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TH_YbBHVF4g

Oh can't you see, you belong to me


FreeRose
+1
No one will ever do that again. It's a breath of fresh air not to have people judging every aspect of my life. Anonimity is awesome.
almafudd
Re: Disturbing VT Message
I too was disturbed by this month's VT message. My never-mo friends know of some of my experiences with home teachers and visiting teachers. They all think it's really creepy to have someone assigned to monthly visit your home and report if they hear of any concerns or notice anything. I always say things are fine even if they aren't. I don't want any part of my life to be any part of their business.

Several years ago, I had a pair of visiting teachers who got me so stirred up month after month, I called the RS Pres to ask her to assign me and my LDS friend up the street to someone else. Both VTs were very abrasive and opinionated. It's my way to try to roll with it and not volunteer much about my personal life. Those sisters would have a 90 minute gripe session between themselves, then they'd go to visit my friend's house. I was glad to see them go because they bummed me out. I knew after their 90 minutes in my friend's home, she would be calling me in tears. Month after month, they attacked her for having so many children so close together in age. My friend was no Molly Mormon, nor a simpering wimp. Her ultra TBM husband was a self-centered, condescending jerk and she had problems living up to his expectations. She didn't need her VT to badger her about using birth control. It was none of their business!! I do know as a close personal friend, she got a prescription for birth control pills, but her husband thought that was a sin so he withheld sex from her while she was taking the pill. She had enough to deal with and didn't need them harping on her.

Before I go off on a tangent here, I must make my point - I told the RS pres that our VT were making us depressed and tearful. The RS pres said, "I'm sorry, I know they're not easy to get along with but they really need to have that calling so look at it as being YOUR calling to tolerate them."

The missionaries & TBMs believe that VT is an inspired program for uplifting one another and providing opportunities for service. Bull!! It's all about social control, making inflated reports, and bragging rights about service. They fail to see that it isn't that enticing to normal people. It's invasive and time-wasting. VT and HT rarely comes from real friendship and care.

"Recovery from Mormonism - www.exmormon.org"