Living History: Mormonism Isn’t Only Religion to Admit Mistakes of Past

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  • user warning: Table './exmo_08072012/cache_filter' is marked as crashed and should be repaired query: UPDATE cache_filter SET data = '<p>steve benson and Pat Bagley Dec. 2013</p>\n<p>\"The policy banning people of African ancestry from the Mormon priesthood until 1978 was a mistake. The LDS Church made the admission last week and placed the blame at the feet of Brigham Young for being a man of his times. Theories of black inferiority were almost universally held by white America in 1852, when Young formalized the policy.\"</p>\n<p>Driving into work this morning, I was on the phone with my fiendish friend and partner in crime, Pat Bagley, editorial cartoonist for the \"Salt Lake Tribune.\" (We worked together as student staff cartoonists for BYU\'s campus newspaper, the \"Daily Universe,\" back in the 1970s, where he did some amazing stuff and still is doing amazing stuff).</p>\n<p>Anyway, Pat mentioned that he had written a column for the \"Trib\" and that his irreverent colleague, Robert Kirby, had taken it to church yesterday in order to get \"readtion\" from ward members. I asked him what his column was about. He chuckled softly (as Pat often does) and replied, \"Oh, about St. Francis.\"</p>\n<p>My curiosity piqued, I told him I would read it and asked him if I could post it here on RfM. He agreed, only requesting attribution. So, here it is (accompanied by his amazing cartoon commentary, as well):</p>\n<p>\"\"Living History: Mormonism Isn’t Only Religion to Admit Mistakes of Past\'</p>\n<p>\"The policy banning people of African ancestry from the Mormon priesthood until 1978 was a mistake. The LDS Church made the admission last week and placed the blame at the feet of Brigham Young for being a man of his times. Theories of black inferiority were almost universally held by white America in 1852, when Young formalized the policy.</p>\n<p>\"For years Mormonism spun tales of how a just and loving God gave Blacks short shrift. I still remember them from Sunday school. They ranged from the biblical \'mark of Cain\' being a black skin, to black Africans gold-bricking during the war in heaven. Looking back they sound like Rudyard Kipling’s \'Just So Stories,\' a la \'How the Elephant Got Its Trunk.\'</p>\n<p>\"Now the Church, appropriately, says it was all bunk.</p>\n<p>\"Mormonism isn’t the only religion that has found it necessary to distance itself from its past. Early on, the Catholic Church had to decide which of the many Jesus stories in circulation were authentic, and a whole genre fancifully recounting his childhood was given the boot. For example, a typical one told of the young Jesus using his miraculous powers to fix his father Joseph’s shoddy carpentry.</p>\n<p>\"The Catholic Church also admitted, after almost 400 years of reflection, that the Earth does indeed revolve around the sun.</p>\n<p>\"Galileo had been punished in the 1630s for teaching the heliocentric theory and, in 1992, Pope John Paul ll formally confessed the mistake. The New York Times reported, \"Though the pope acknowledged that the church had done Galileo a wrong, he said the 17th-century theologians were working with the knowledge available to them at the time.\"</p>\n<p>\"Curiously, there was a faction in the Vatican, headed by Cardinal Ratzinger (who would become Pope Benedict XVI) that fought against the apology. Ratzinger argued in 1990 that the church was completely within its rights in censuring Galileo and didn’t need to backtrack.</p>\n<p>\"Speaking of astrophysics, there are some old Mormon notions about space that have quietly been retired. I alluded to a couple in my Thursday \'Salt Lake Tribune\' cartoon, . . .</p>\n<p>\"In 1891, the Church published Oliver B. Huntington’s recollection that, \'As far back as 1837. . ., [Joseph Smith] said the moon was inhabited by men and women the same as this Earth, and that . . . they live generally to near the age of a 1,000 years. He described the men as averaging near six feet in height, and dressing quite uniformly in something near the Quaker style.\'</p>\n<p>\"In 1961, then-apostle Joseph Fielding Smith said, \'The moon is a superior planet to the Earth and it was never intended that man should go there. You can write it down in your books that this will never happen.\'</p>\n<p>\"When Smith became Church president in 1970, he was asked about this prediction. \'Well, I was wrong, wasn’t I?\' he replied.</p>\n<p>\"There are other \'doctrines\' that Mormonism is apparently happy to toss in the attic and forget. For example, \"Blood Atonement\" and \'Adam/God\' don’t get any Sunday airtime these days.</p>\n<p>\"Religions built on inerrancy have a tough time eating crow. But admitting past errors allows them to emphasize more positive aspects of their faith. Pope Francis recently has encouraged Catholics to focus on the central message of Christ, and Mormonism is free to fully embrace one of its core values, i.e., that God is no \"respecter of persons.\"</p>\n<p>\"\'He denieth none that come unto him, black and white, bond and free, male and female; . . . and all are alike unto God.\' (Book of Mormon, 2 Nephite 26:33)</p>\n<p>(\"Living History: Mormonism Isn’t Only Religion to Admit Mistakes of Past,\" by Pat Bagley, \"The Salt Lake Tribune,\" 14 December 2013, at: <a href=\"http://m.sltrib.com/sltrib/mobile3/57262955-219/church-mormonism-bagley-black.html.csp\" title=\"http://m.sltrib.com/sltrib/mobile3/57262955-219/church-mormonism-bagley-black.html.csp\">http://m.sltrib.com/sltrib/mobile3/57262955-219/church-mormonism-bagley-...</a>)<br />\n_____</p>\n<p>Pat, you devil, you. Now is the great day of your power. By the way, if you\'re reading this, it wasn\'t \"policy:\" it was doctrine. Check out my comments, with appropriate citations, in your newspaper\'s own reader commentary section, for gawd\'s sake: <a href=\"http://www.sltrib.com/pages/comments?cid=57241071\" title=\"http://www.sltrib.com/pages/comments?cid=57241071\">http://www.sltrib.com/pages/comments?cid=57241071</a>, or on RfM, here: <a href=\"http://exmormon.org/phorum/read.php?2,1109720\" title=\"http://exmormon.org/phorum/read.php?2,1109720\">http://exmormon.org/phorum/read.php?2,1109720</a></p>\n<p>(We can talk about it on the way into work tomorrow).</p>\n<p>:)</p>\n<hr />\n<p>zarahemlatowndrunk<br />\nRe: Fellow cartoonist Pat Bagley and I chatted this morning. Here\'s the result<br />\nI do find it hard to see the piece the church quietly put out as them openly admitting it was all bunk. More like a little kid who saying \"I don\'t know why I did that\" as quietly as they can when they know punishment is inevitable for being caught redhanded at some naughty little deed. Only the naughty little deed is massive fraud.</p>\n<p>LOVE the cartoon!</p>\n<hr />\n<p>Senoritalamanita<br />\nRe: Fellow doodler Pat Bagley &amp; I had a chat about LDS Inc. racism. The result-<br />\nGood article and cartoon. Kudos to Mr. Bagley.</p>\n<p>The only postscript I would attach is to say that the Catholic Church actually made public apologies regarding their past errors/doctrines/atrocities -- whereas the Mormon Church has only \"disavowed\" (abdicated responsibility for) the actions of Brigham Young and his racist views/ban on blacks holding the priesthood.</p>\n<p>Whether or not the LDS Church makes an apology for any past misdeeds or doctrine probably lies in the hands of their insurance company and PR department, who knows?</p>\n<p>I am not sure if the Catholic Church\'s apologies carry any weight in view of the murders, sexual crimes, and persecution they inflicted. But at least the gesture was made. Perhaps its worth something.</p>\n<p>What do you say RFM readers? Should the LDS Church actually apologize for their misdeeds -- or is that too little, too late?</p>\n<p><a href=\"http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_apologies_made_by_Pope_John_Paul_II\" title=\"http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_apologies_made_by_Pope_John_Paul_II\">http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_apologies_made_by_Pope_John_Paul_II</a></p>\n<hr />\n<p>elbert<br />\nRe: Fellow doodler Pat Bagley &amp; I had a chat about LDS Inc. racism. The result-<br />\nRefutation and more refutation are needed--with an accompanying revelation. Examples:<br />\nPolygamy necessary for exaltation to you get canned if you do.<br />\nBlood of Africans nullifies all priesthood blessings \"...this will always be so.\"<br />\nFrom Men can become gods to \"We don\'t actually teach this\" (it\'s just a saying)<br />\netc.<br />\nAn apology bypasses the need to come clean. Let the Revelators get to work!</p>\n<hr />\n<p>backphil<br />\nRe: Fellow doodler Pat Bagley &amp; I had a chat about LDS Inc. racism. The result-<br />\nThe Catholic church isn\'t completely out of step with science, they are looking for extraterrestrial life, check out:</p>\n<p><a href=\"http://americamagazine.org/content/all-things/why-vatican-interested-search-life-universe\" title=\"http://americamagazine.org/content/all-things/why-vatican-interested-search-life-universe\">http://americamagazine.org/content/all-things/why-vatican-interested-sea...</a></p>\n<hr />\n<p>releve<br />\nRe: Fellow doodler Pat Bagley &amp; I had a chat about LDS Inc. racism. The result-<br />\nThose of us who live in the Salt Lake Valley have two newspapers. The Deseret News (known in apostate circles as the Deserted News) and the Salt Lake Tribune. Every April and every October when TSCC holds General Conference, both of these papers give a good portion of the front page to the event. General Conference is held twice a year, every year. The same old guys and Stepford wives give the same old talks and maybe a new temple site is announced. The papers report the inflated membership numbers and any other fluff they can find to fill the space.</p>\n<p>When TSCC posts on it\'s official website an essay that throws the second prophet and president of TSCC and the first territorial governor of the territory of Deseret under the bus, affectively blaming him for over a hundred years of racism, does the Deseret News put it on the front page? Does the Salt Lake Tribune put the coverage by their religion reporter on the front page?</p>\n<p>I\'m happy that there was any coverage at all, and Pat Bagley is my hero for continuing to point out the lunacy of this very strange culture, but I think there was a real story here and it deserved the front page.</p>\n<p>This story isn\'t just about whether BY was a racist because he was a man of his time. The real story isn\'t about racism at all. The real story is about a church that claims to have a living prophet and yet admits that those prophets are no wiser than the average Joe (not necessarily excluding, nor limited too Smith). The essay on the official LDS Church website calls to question the existence of modern day revelation. That was and still is the story.</p>\n<p>That story should have broader distribution than a few message boards.</p>\n<hr />\n<p>SL Cabbie<br />\nToday\'s Bagley...<br />\nI don\'t subscribe to the Tribune (neither does former owner Phil McCarthey, who won\'t allow it in his home), but Pat hit his usual out-of-the-park shot here on that other \"touchy\" subject.</p>\n<p><a href=\"http://www.sltrib.com/sltrib/opinion/57272184-82/bagley-cartoon-closet-comes.html.csp\" title=\"http://www.sltrib.com/sltrib/opinion/57272184-82/bagley-cartoon-closet-comes.html.csp\">http://www.sltrib.com/sltrib/opinion/57272184-82/bagley-cartoon-closet-c...</a></p>\n<p>Following Pat\'s work (I really need to get Will to bring him to one of our below-the-radar lunches here one of these days; I haven\'t actually met him) was how I happened on the Fletcher Stack article I posted about elsewhere.</p>\n<p>I don\'t know if the Resurrection is happening, but LDS skeletons are certainly rising up and walking around.</p>\n<hr />\nkjourney<br />\nRe: Fellow doodler Pat Bagley &amp; I had a chat about LDS Inc. racism. The result-<br />\nThanks for sharing. Great article and cartoon. Pat is my neighbor, though I doubt he knows who I am. He has a killer display at Halloween time and the kids love trick-or-treating at his spooky shed.\n<hr />\nanon 21<br />\nRe: Fellow doodler Pat Bagley &amp; I had a chat about LDS Inc. racism. The result-<br />\nWe apologized but there is still a lot of crap going on, they still have \"the inquisition\" going on. Its called by a different name now...its like that Mormon council that watches over published Mormon things.<br />\nPerhaps all this will convey that Mormons are just Mormons and you decide what is right and what is wrong. We long gave up that priests hold the ultimate power, knowledge and spiritual authority. From what I can read, BY wanted people not to follow him. If that\'s true maybe he came and told them that.\n<hr />\n<p>dk<br />\nRe: Fellow doodler Pat Bagley &amp; I had a chat about LDS Inc. racism. The result-<br />\nI was never really bothered by the church\'s past. Plenty of church\'s have history they would like to keep buried. I\'m most bothered by what the church is doing now. Shopping mall, hunting reserves, Hawaiian resorts. Repent and pay tithing. Really?</p>\n<hr />\n<p>\"Recovery from Mormonism - www.exmormon.org\"</p>\n', created = 1611364203, expire = 1611450603, headers = '', serialized = 0 WHERE cid = '2:283477a74703d3517363936faf127bf5' in /home/exmormon/public_html/d6/drupal/includes/cache.inc on line 112.

steve benson and Pat Bagley Dec. 2013

"The policy banning people of African ancestry from the Mormon priesthood until 1978 was a mistake. The LDS Church made the admission last week and placed the blame at the feet of Brigham Young for being a man of his times. Theories of black inferiority were almost universally held by white America in 1852, when Young formalized the policy."

Driving into work this morning, I was on the phone with my fiendish friend and partner in crime, Pat Bagley, editorial cartoonist for the "Salt Lake Tribune." (We worked together as student staff cartoonists for BYU's campus newspaper, the "Daily Universe," back in the 1970s, where he did some amazing stuff and still is doing amazing stuff).

Anyway, Pat mentioned that he had written a column for the "Trib" and that his irreverent colleague, Robert Kirby, had taken it to church yesterday in order to get "readtion" from ward members. I asked him what his column was about. He chuckled softly (as Pat often does) and replied, "Oh, about St. Francis."

My curiosity piqued, I told him I would read it and asked him if I could post it here on RfM. He agreed, only requesting attribution. So, here it is (accompanied by his amazing cartoon commentary, as well):

""Living History: Mormonism Isn’t Only Religion to Admit Mistakes of Past'

"The policy banning people of African ancestry from the Mormon priesthood until 1978 was a mistake. The LDS Church made the admission last week and placed the blame at the feet of Brigham Young for being a man of his times. Theories of black inferiority were almost universally held by white America in 1852, when Young formalized the policy.

"For years Mormonism spun tales of how a just and loving God gave Blacks short shrift. I still remember them from Sunday school. They ranged from the biblical 'mark of Cain' being a black skin, to black Africans gold-bricking during the war in heaven. Looking back they sound like Rudyard Kipling’s 'Just So Stories,' a la 'How the Elephant Got Its Trunk.'

"Now the Church, appropriately, says it was all bunk.

"Mormonism isn’t the only religion that has found it necessary to distance itself from its past. Early on, the Catholic Church had to decide which of the many Jesus stories in circulation were authentic, and a whole genre fancifully recounting his childhood was given the boot. For example, a typical one told of the young Jesus using his miraculous powers to fix his father Joseph’s shoddy carpentry.

"The Catholic Church also admitted, after almost 400 years of reflection, that the Earth does indeed revolve around the sun.

"Galileo had been punished in the 1630s for teaching the heliocentric theory and, in 1992, Pope John Paul ll formally confessed the mistake. The New York Times reported, "Though the pope acknowledged that the church had done Galileo a wrong, he said the 17th-century theologians were working with the knowledge available to them at the time."

"Curiously, there was a faction in the Vatican, headed by Cardinal Ratzinger (who would become Pope Benedict XVI) that fought against the apology. Ratzinger argued in 1990 that the church was completely within its rights in censuring Galileo and didn’t need to backtrack.

"Speaking of astrophysics, there are some old Mormon notions about space that have quietly been retired. I alluded to a couple in my Thursday 'Salt Lake Tribune' cartoon, . . .

"In 1891, the Church published Oliver B. Huntington’s recollection that, 'As far back as 1837. . ., [Joseph Smith] said the moon was inhabited by men and women the same as this Earth, and that . . . they live generally to near the age of a 1,000 years. He described the men as averaging near six feet in height, and dressing quite uniformly in something near the Quaker style.'

"In 1961, then-apostle Joseph Fielding Smith said, 'The moon is a superior planet to the Earth and it was never intended that man should go there. You can write it down in your books that this will never happen.'

"When Smith became Church president in 1970, he was asked about this prediction. 'Well, I was wrong, wasn’t I?' he replied.

"There are other 'doctrines' that Mormonism is apparently happy to toss in the attic and forget. For example, "Blood Atonement" and 'Adam/God' don’t get any Sunday airtime these days.

"Religions built on inerrancy have a tough time eating crow. But admitting past errors allows them to emphasize more positive aspects of their faith. Pope Francis recently has encouraged Catholics to focus on the central message of Christ, and Mormonism is free to fully embrace one of its core values, i.e., that God is no "respecter of persons."

"'He denieth none that come unto him, black and white, bond and free, male and female; . . . and all are alike unto God.' (Book of Mormon, 2 Nephite 26:33)

("Living History: Mormonism Isn’t Only Religion to Admit Mistakes of Past," by Pat Bagley, "The Salt Lake Tribune," 14 December 2013, at: http://m.sltrib.com/sltrib/mobile3/57262955-219/church-mormonism-bagley-...)
_____

Pat, you devil, you. Now is the great day of your power. By the way, if you're reading this, it wasn't "policy:" it was doctrine. Check out my comments, with appropriate citations, in your newspaper's own reader commentary section, for gawd's sake: http://www.sltrib.com/pages/comments?cid=57241071, or on RfM, here: http://exmormon.org/phorum/read.php?2,1109720

(We can talk about it on the way into work tomorrow).

:)


zarahemlatowndrunk
Re: Fellow cartoonist Pat Bagley and I chatted this morning. Here's the result
I do find it hard to see the piece the church quietly put out as them openly admitting it was all bunk. More like a little kid who saying "I don't know why I did that" as quietly as they can when they know punishment is inevitable for being caught redhanded at some naughty little deed. Only the naughty little deed is massive fraud.

LOVE the cartoon!


Senoritalamanita
Re: Fellow doodler Pat Bagley & I had a chat about LDS Inc. racism. The result-
Good article and cartoon. Kudos to Mr. Bagley.

The only postscript I would attach is to say that the Catholic Church actually made public apologies regarding their past errors/doctrines/atrocities -- whereas the Mormon Church has only "disavowed" (abdicated responsibility for) the actions of Brigham Young and his racist views/ban on blacks holding the priesthood.

Whether or not the LDS Church makes an apology for any past misdeeds or doctrine probably lies in the hands of their insurance company and PR department, who knows?

I am not sure if the Catholic Church's apologies carry any weight in view of the murders, sexual crimes, and persecution they inflicted. But at least the gesture was made. Perhaps its worth something.

What do you say RFM readers? Should the LDS Church actually apologize for their misdeeds -- or is that too little, too late?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_apologies_made_by_Pope_John_Paul_II


elbert
Re: Fellow doodler Pat Bagley & I had a chat about LDS Inc. racism. The result-
Refutation and more refutation are needed--with an accompanying revelation. Examples:
Polygamy necessary for exaltation to you get canned if you do.
Blood of Africans nullifies all priesthood blessings "...this will always be so."
From Men can become gods to "We don't actually teach this" (it's just a saying)
etc.
An apology bypasses the need to come clean. Let the Revelators get to work!


backphil
Re: Fellow doodler Pat Bagley & I had a chat about LDS Inc. racism. The result-
The Catholic church isn't completely out of step with science, they are looking for extraterrestrial life, check out:

http://americamagazine.org/content/all-things/why-vatican-interested-sea...


releve
Re: Fellow doodler Pat Bagley & I had a chat about LDS Inc. racism. The result-
Those of us who live in the Salt Lake Valley have two newspapers. The Deseret News (known in apostate circles as the Deserted News) and the Salt Lake Tribune. Every April and every October when TSCC holds General Conference, both of these papers give a good portion of the front page to the event. General Conference is held twice a year, every year. The same old guys and Stepford wives give the same old talks and maybe a new temple site is announced. The papers report the inflated membership numbers and any other fluff they can find to fill the space.

When TSCC posts on it's official website an essay that throws the second prophet and president of TSCC and the first territorial governor of the territory of Deseret under the bus, affectively blaming him for over a hundred years of racism, does the Deseret News put it on the front page? Does the Salt Lake Tribune put the coverage by their religion reporter on the front page?

I'm happy that there was any coverage at all, and Pat Bagley is my hero for continuing to point out the lunacy of this very strange culture, but I think there was a real story here and it deserved the front page.

This story isn't just about whether BY was a racist because he was a man of his time. The real story isn't about racism at all. The real story is about a church that claims to have a living prophet and yet admits that those prophets are no wiser than the average Joe (not necessarily excluding, nor limited too Smith). The essay on the official LDS Church website calls to question the existence of modern day revelation. That was and still is the story.

That story should have broader distribution than a few message boards.


SL Cabbie
Today's Bagley...
I don't subscribe to the Tribune (neither does former owner Phil McCarthey, who won't allow it in his home), but Pat hit his usual out-of-the-park shot here on that other "touchy" subject.

http://www.sltrib.com/sltrib/opinion/57272184-82/bagley-cartoon-closet-c...

Following Pat's work (I really need to get Will to bring him to one of our below-the-radar lunches here one of these days; I haven't actually met him) was how I happened on the Fletcher Stack article I posted about elsewhere.

I don't know if the Resurrection is happening, but LDS skeletons are certainly rising up and walking around.


kjourney
Re: Fellow doodler Pat Bagley & I had a chat about LDS Inc. racism. The result-
Thanks for sharing. Great article and cartoon. Pat is my neighbor, though I doubt he knows who I am. He has a killer display at Halloween time and the kids love trick-or-treating at his spooky shed.
anon 21
Re: Fellow doodler Pat Bagley & I had a chat about LDS Inc. racism. The result-
We apologized but there is still a lot of crap going on, they still have "the inquisition" going on. Its called by a different name now...its like that Mormon council that watches over published Mormon things.
Perhaps all this will convey that Mormons are just Mormons and you decide what is right and what is wrong. We long gave up that priests hold the ultimate power, knowledge and spiritual authority. From what I can read, BY wanted people not to follow him. If that's true maybe he came and told them that.

dk
Re: Fellow doodler Pat Bagley & I had a chat about LDS Inc. racism. The result-
I was never really bothered by the church's past. Plenty of church's have history they would like to keep buried. I'm most bothered by what the church is doing now. Shopping mall, hunting reserves, Hawaiian resorts. Repent and pay tithing. Really?


"Recovery from Mormonism - www.exmormon.org"