Subject: I tried to keep my mouth shut but couldn't
Date: Jun 21, 2009
Author: awake now

So this weekend we had to do another hospital stay with our daughter because she had a slight elevated fever and her counts were low....nothing wrong just precautionary with leukemia. ANYWAY Friday night was my shift (hubby and I take turns spending the nights and days up there when she has to stay so she is not alone)

They have a family lounge in the cancer wing that has fridge ,microwave , coffee. etc. I went in to pop her some popcorn and I kid you not there are 2 missionaries and a spanish speaking woman and they are giving her in very broken spanglish an explanation of how they the LDS inc. have the power of God . Okay now I know this mom . Her son who is 3 has a rare form of brain cancer only 8 documented cases in the world and she and her son (father was deported) have been there for 5 months straight . He is having radiation and it has not worked ...all of us parents know who she is and we hug her every time we see her . All of us cancer parents have the same look . FEAR !!!

These elders are explaining that she needs to read her BOM and pray about it and you can tell she has been .....
I joke not when I tell you that right there as her child is waiting to die they were trying to commit her to baptism and making all sorts of promises of what god will do for her
....She was hesitant and unsure .

I did not move I felt frozen I couldn't leave her there thinking that penishood magic would save her son!! I just couldn't . Then the one kid tells her that he KNOWS as he crys that god will perform a miracle and if she has enough faith god can perform miracles! Well guys that is when I snapped. I interupted the conversation right then .
I said elders what the hell are you doing ??? I let them know I understood that they were just kids and totally duped into thinking all they have been taught . Told them I was a return missionary and could not believe that they were trying to commit her in the middle of her crisis!!!! I explained that even though they might not realize it because of their youth and indoctrination that that mom ....she is a mom first only heard one thing they said !! She heard the word "CURE" I told them that it was wrong to tell her such a thing and that as parents on that floor we would do anything and I mean ANYTHING to cure our children! They got mad at me can you believe that ?? THey actually had the nerve to tell me that they have been called of God and I should of all people understand that! OH PLEASE! but I let it slide as I was a 21 year old missionary once who believed everything SLC said . I refused to leave the room ....they got uncomfortable when the nurse came in and heard them because she said she did not think that was the time or place to do that and that they should go down to the chapel for that talk!

When they left I hugged that mom and she asked me what she should do ??? As a cancer parent I knew exactly what she should do ...the only thing cancer parents can do . HOPE THE MEDICINE WORKS and hope we have the strength to see when it isn't and say goodbye! That is all we can do especially her when her son's cancer is incurable . Another mom came in and said "I will tell you what to do honey . CRY!!!!" and we sat there with her while she cried!She obviously believes in god and christianity and since I am allergic to religion;) we called the chaplin who only tells parents to pray for strength to handle things not healing!!!

Sorry I rambled but I am still so upset at what they said ..I'm more angry that SLC still spews the crap they do !!!! She asked me what to do with the BOM ....the chaplin knows us and that we are exmo's and so he and I said THROW THE DAME THING OUT! I told her I used to be a mormon and that is was HORRIBLE and nothing but lies.

I will see her again next week for our mandatory instay chemo . Anyway thanks for letting me share ...I feel better!


Subject: That is -low-
Date: Jun 21 09:46
Author: ThisIsMyLife

They take advantage of people when they are in a vulnerable circumstance. Of course, they believe that they are "saving" and helping...

It still boggles my mind how they view themselves as saviors to the world to unwittingly strayed people, which means they have every right to barge in on "opportune" times to "help". They just don't understand that non-mo's find it invasive, insensitive and incredibly annoying.


Subject: I'm so proud of you!!
Date: Jun 21 09:47
Author: Yse

Missionaries should not be allowed to loiter in hospitals and push their cult on vulnerable people in crisis.

The way the morg exploits people is despicable!!


Subject: Re: I hope your daughter does well....and medicine, teraphy works
Date: Jun 21 10:01
Author: Quinlansolo

As well as other Mom's daughter.
Those idiots deserved your tongue-lashing 100%.
talking of magic cure is the most cruel thing those immature kids could offer.


Subject: That is so low!
Date: Jun 21 10:11
Author: Summer

I think you were absolutely right to intervene. Those young missionaries have no right to make the promises that they are making to such a vulnerable person. I think that it's one thing to offer prayer and support (and if they were smart and compassionate, that's what they'd do,) but quite another to proselytize in such a blatant, disrespectful manner and to make false promises.

I would be inclined to make a huge stink about it -- to the hospital president, the MP, and (if you get nowhere with him, which is likely) the letters section of your local newspaper.


Subject: You did a wonderful thing!
Date: Jun 21 10:34
Author: jillian

What you did was what absolutely should have been done. And you did it well. Thank you.

I agree with Summer. Those missionaries had absolutely NO business being there and the hospital should be informed -- I would be surprised if they don't already have some kind of policy to cover that. And I would call the MP and let him know how very, very out of line those missionaries were.

Finally - my good thoughts to you and your family. I lost a husband, but having a child so ill and fragile must be a whole different level of pain -- I cannot imagine.


Subject: Oh my goodness! Thank you!
Date: Jun 21 10:36
Author: Cheryl

Shame on those mishie boys!! How dare they exploit a mother in such an awful situation. That's appalling!

Report them to hospital administration!

My best to you and the other mom and all of the kiddies fighting the hard fight.


Subject: Re: I tried to keep my mouth shut but couldn't
Date: Jun 21 10:38
Author: sherv

What those missionaries were doing is horrible. How much did they care about the child???Seems like they only cared about a possible convert. You were right to step in and as I was reading I kept pulling for you to step in AND THEN YOU DID!!! Yeah!!! You had every right. Thanks for being there for that woman in her time of need. You can be very proud of yourself. I will keep your children in my thoughts and prayers.


Subject: WHAT???????
Date: Jun 21 10:46
Author: Baura

These missionaries hang around the waiting room at the hospital and swoop down on despondent people facing life-threatening crises?


Of course they are just following the tactics of BKKKP who said that at funerals etc. people are more "receptive" to the gospel so you should push that rather than have a eulogy.

I'm reminded of the opening scene of the Paul Newman film "The Verdict" where Newman, a small-time, struggling lawyer is reduced to attending funerals and, while claiming to have been a friend of the deceased, hands his business card to the next of kin.



Subject: Re: I tried to keep my mouth shut but couldn't
Date: Jun 21 10:58
Author: awake now

I think that they have been meeting with her a while. She works and the husband is in South America and so I think they tracted her out at home the spanish BOM looked pretty worn . She is not at the hospital 24/7 so I think they felt justified in "supporting her" Which is so maddening. Seriously I thought I had seen it all !
The Chaplin was furious and took their names ....all clergy are supposed to check in at the chapel and they did not :):):) So maybe they will be kept out but more importantly I hope she throws that damn book of mormon away! Thank you for the well wishes for our daughter ...she is still in remission and as bad as we feel we have it ...ya know they cure her leukemia at 95% some of those kids do not have a kind that is as curable or even curable at all so that is why I got so upset. I was so upset to think that she might think that some of the kids are doing well because of god or faith .....when you have a sick child emotions are irrational!! I hope they get blocked from coming there .....and if I see them again I will call the chaplin to run them off again :) This is the bible belt it is not as if they are welcome anywhere here !


Subject: She was fortunate that you were there...
Date: Jun 21 11:05
Author: Kirsten

How low does TSCC stoop to convert people? I know they like to get people who are the most vulnerable, at low points in their lives, etc., but this takes the cake.

Could you imagine the additional heartache this woman would have gone through if you hadn't been there and she was sucked in by the missionaries?

You did a good thing.


Subject: The mormon agenda takes pre-eminence over natural compassion and....
Date: Jun 21 11:35
Author: copolt

through intensive training in the MTC, these young men surrender their better feelings to achieve meaningless goals and targets. That`s what happens to idealistic but immature young people when they fall prey to the smiling, reassuring cult that is the mormon church.

In Cambodia, Pol Pot`s army were able to train their young people to suffocate farmers and peasants by putting plastic bags over their heads and pushing them into a ditch after a hard days work.

It may seem an unfair comparison but it is the same process at work.

Well done awake now.


Subject: Coupla bottom-feeders!
Date: Jun 21 11:10
Author: DoxiNoMo

Taking advantage of her pain to push their odious agenda... to get more people into their money-sucking cult!

You done good!


Subject: Tell the hospital they have people **victimizing** grieving parents, etc there!!!!
Date: Jun 21 12:36
Author: Tiphanie

Unless it's a sicko mormon-run hospital, NO hospital worth it's accreditation is going to *knowingly* let SICKOs prey upon their vulnerable population OR families!!!

I would tell that hospital IMMEDIATELY what happened and have ALL missionaries BARRED from talking to ANYONE BUT THE DELUDED PEOPLE THEY WERE SPECIFICALLY INVITED TO VISIT THERE, period!! >:(

The chaplain STAYS as long as the chaplain doesn't pull any crap at all. :)

::steps down off soapbox, puts it away::


Subject: Kudos. You did the right thing for that lady and her child. n/t


Subject: This is outrageous behavior. Did you tell the hospital administrators about it?
Date: Jun 21 12:55
Author: SusieQ#1

Have you made a written complaint? I would! Explain exactly what they did, what they said, and the impact it had on the mother of the ill child.

Someone from the hospital administration needs to write a letter to the mission president/local bishop/stake president, and follow it up with a phone call and let them know that their missionaries are not to approach people in the waiting room, loiter in the chapel, etc.
This is such egregious behavior, they may ban them completely.

You have an opportunity to put the hospital on alert and the LDS Church also. I would bet they have no idea what these rogue missionaries are doing and how inappropriate it is.

So sorry about your child. We have had a close call with our children, and my husband, and I know that kind of fear.
My best to you.


Subject: It would have been horrible if you kept your mouth shut!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Date: Jun 21 14:52
Author: Susan I/S

And you showed much greater restraint than I would have been able to muster!!! I would have grabbed both of them by the ear and marched their snotty butts to Administration! And called the MissionPres and given him a huge chunk of my mind! This is one of the worst things I have seen on the board EVER.

Good for you. I am so proud of you. And you give yourself and that poor mother a big hug from me.

Oh, and I am going to have Eric add this to the archives! And if you see those two little snots again you tell them that for me!


Subject: I'm going to get flamed for this one, I know it...
Date: Jun 21 14:58
Author: bipolarbear

...They are COMPLETELY wrong. They should NOT have been there. It's absolutely out of line and there is no excuse.


I blame the higher ups, not the mishies *quite as much.* I mean, not as a mo mishie, but as an enthusiastic, genuine believing person. I'm guessing that they really, truly believed they were called to that hospital and to that woman, and may have even really believed that child would be healed.

The result is the same. They should NOT have been there. It was a terrible, horrible thing to do. There should be extremely strict rules about that kind of stuff- I'm guessing there is. That would be considered proselytizing (obviously) and shouldn't happen. It's one thing if a patient/parent CALLS for clergy counsel- okay, fine. (But I still wouldn't send the mishies.) But there should be absolutely NO soliciting like that. There is no excuse for this.

Please, please tell me you contacted the MP. Or at least discussed it with the hospital admins. You know as well as the rest of us that these guys will keep coming back to their feeding grounds b/c the LDS have absolutely no sense of boundaries.


Subject: and let me say...
Date: Jun 21 15:04
Author: bipolarbear absolutely did the right thing. Good for you.


Subject: LDS missionaries are NOT CLERGY, and they know full well what they are doing!
Date: Jun 21 15:05
Author: forestpal

Good for you! You are our new hero, awake now!

I have heard of missionaries having to go through many hoops to get in there and give blessings, so they are instructed to say they are "friends of the family." They are not allowed to loiter in waiting rooms or even confront people outside in the parking lot.

In a recent (US) missionary e-mail, my nephew mentioned that they had to drop off a member at the hospital and wait outside, away from the parking lot, even--because the missionaries had been permanently banned from that hospital a long time ago!

An older ex-Mormon relative of mine was strongly against the cult. Some LDS missionaries lied and said they were family members. My mother walked in as they were trying to annoint her with oil, and my aunt, on a resperator and unale to speak, was frantically waving her hands, with a horrified look on her face. My mother got them out of the room, and reported them to the hospital administration, The hospital said they alread had a ban on proselyting, and encouraged the patients and families to use the hospital chapel and non-denominational chaplain. Mormons are above the law, and all the rules in the world do not keep those creeps from lying.

You saved that poor mother! She would have had to suffer guilt that her faith was not strong enough to cure her daughter. She would have been alienated from her own God and His love and mercy. Her god would have been supplanted with some weird American Joseph Smith God who only wants her money, does not love her unless she obeys the delightsome white American male cult leaders. She and her other children would have been taught that they would NEVER see each other again in the hereafter unless she got married and everyone sealed in the temple. What a horrible fate you saved her from, because you couldn't keep your mouth shut!

(((Hugs))) to you and your daughter, your family, and that mother and her family!


Subject: The trouble of magic thinking
Date: Jun 21 15:29
Author: Odell Campbell

forestpal wrote:
> > You saved that poor mother! She would have had to suffer guilt that her faith was not strong enough to cure her daughter. She would have been alienated from her own God and His love and mercy. Her god would have been supplanted with some weird American Joseph Smith God who only wants her money, does not love her unless she obeys the delightsome white American male cult leaders. She and her other children would have been taught that they would NEVER see each other again in the hereafter unless she got married and everyone sealed in the temple. What a horrible fate you saved her from, because you couldn't keep your mouth shut!

You are right, but will she always blame herself for her child's death for NOT having listened to the missionaries and being baptized? It seems nearly certain from the post that her child will not live much longer.

So death is the contant variable. If she gets baptized and her child dies, she blames herself for her lack of sufficient faith. If she doesn't get baptized and her child dies, she blames herself for not obeying and offending deity.

The problem with magic thinking is that it alreadys leads to self criticism when the magic "fails." I'll take the rational real world any day.

I liked your observations.


Subject: Re: The trouble of magic thinking
Date: Jun 21 15:49
Author: Harmony

Odell Campbell wrote:

> but will she always blame herself for her child's death for NOT having listened to the missionaries and being baptized? It seems nearly certain from the post that her child will not live much longer.

> If she doesn't get baptized and her child dies, she blames herself for not obeying and offending deity.

If/when the child dies, she will need someone to back her up on her decision. She needs to know enough facts about the absurdity of the cult to know that she made the right choice, or she will never have peace of mind.


Subject: "we are to be always finding" command from a jerk... eh, an MP
Date: Jun 21 15:11
Author: anon for this

Those kids are brainwashed to intrude in any and all situations. It's pretty horrible.

Here's a fresh monthly letter to the mishies from an MP, I think the man is a major jerk.

After a wonderful zone conference let me start by saying something about goal setting and planning. An integral part (which means essential to being complete) of Preach My Gospel is goal setting and planning. Most of you haven’t really had much of a need to plan up to now in your lives. You have had very valuable training in past zone conferences on this subject and will yet have more in the future. Goal setting and the kind of planning necessary for missionary success does not come naturally to most young people. As I mentioned you haven’t done it much before. Most of you don’t really know how to do it except for what you have learned from Preach My Gospel. I urge you with all my heart to take control of your time and your circumstances rather than always being a victim of them. An inspired missionary shapes history; a less-eager one usually lets history shape him or her. Your joy in missionary work will be greatly enhanced if you can understand that planning tied to the five key indicators will greatly, even dramatically, increase your likelihood of bringing people into the Church.

Now, may I say something about finding? Nothing happens in missionary work until missionaries find someone to teach. I hope you understand that we are to be finding all the time, in everything we do, in every activity we undertake, in everyone we meet. Finding starts before instruction begins, it runs through the teaching sequence and it continues through and in the baptismal service with investigators who attend. In a study done by the Church it has been shown that investigators who attend baptismal services are more likely to go on to their own baptism than any other statistical group of investigators of which we have record. Then the finding process keeps going in the retention and integration phase, which the new convert must experience. In other words, we are to be always finding.

That leads me to the most important thing I can say. We, the Lord, the Brethren and Sister B and I, ask you to plan and prepare the best you can. Work hard. Seek help from all the materials that have been provided for you, such as Preach My Gospel. But when you have thus fortified yourself in every way you know how, gently slide all of it to the side of your desk, turn off your phone, and fall to your knees. You have a direct source of help that is far superior to anything with which we can arm you. That help doesn’t come without preparation, lots of preparation, but it transcends preparation when divine help is needed. So, believe in God and his Son Jesus Christ, exercise faith and find answers in the scriptures and in your prayers. Live with the divine companionship of the Holy Spirit. Stay open to impressions from heaven. Ponder. Pray. Cry a little. Trust in God. Smile. Go forward knowing you have all the help in the world, and better than that, all the help of heaven.

Now in conclusion, there is a method in all this madness and it is simply this. Sister B and I love you. We want you to learn the gospel. We want you to feast on the word of God. We want you to feel the Spirit so powerfully, as a missionary, that you will want it with you all of your life long and that you will mourn when it is absent from you. We want you to love the scriptures and feast upon them as a life-long fountain of spiritual power, for that is what they are. Alma, as a missionary, taught that this was the ultimate missionary tool. He wrote, “And now, as the preaching of the word…had a more powerful effect upon the minds of the people (you, the members, your investigators, etc.) than the sword, or anything else, which had happened unto them—therefore Alma thought it was expedient that they should try the virtue of the word of God” (Alma 31:5). That is what you want—the power of God unto the convincing of men. With the Spirit your tongues will be loosed and you will see and experience the “virtue [power] of the word of God.”


Subject: always finding?
Date: Jun 21 15:31
Author: bipolarbear

Does this mean that they are always in their white shirt, tie and name tag while on a mission? Like, even when they are "off" and at the grocery store or whatever?


Subject: If not, then I guess the boys are supposed to feel guilty of not trying hard enough. n/t


Subject: It's my exeperience and observation that LDS missionaries with their name tags and ID
Date: Jun 21 15:23
Author: SusieQ#1

are considered clergy in many instances, including hospitals and can come and go with impunity.

I am quite sure that this particular instance is not approved by the mission president.


Subject: Unfreaking Real!
Date: Jun 21 15:45
Author: Dave

This type of behavior is absolutely unconscionable and I’m surprised the hospital didn’t collar them before they got that far. Around here, they probably would have been nailed as soon as they walked through the front door. You should definitely register a complaint with the hospital administration. There may be a time and a place for everything; but a hospital waiting area is NOT an appropriate setting for any from of proselytizing, particularly the deceptive and aggressive Mormon variety.


Subject: Mishies and cult materials need to be banned from hospitals.
Date: Jun 21 12:32
Author: Cheryl

Every non-denominational medical facility I know tries to protect vulnerable patients and their families from aggressive religious nuts. That's good!

But "Awake Now" had to step in last night when aggressive morg mishies were aggressively pushing their agenda on a single mother whose young child is suffering in the hospital with debilitating and life threatening brain cancer.

I would encourage others to be as vilgilent as "Awake Now." Religion salespeople have rights to push their wares at certain times and palces, but not in private places where there are rules against these practices.

Hospital waiting rooms, chapels, rest rooms, and parking lots are there for patients, their visitors and supporters, and for the medical care workers. We don't pay for these things to have them clogged by religious fanatics out to gain converts.

I've tangled with those on the board who call it "censorship" when I've dumped Hellfire and Watchtower fliers in the trash in places where these materials were secreted in and left for innocent children and vulnerable victims to pick up.

Hospital workers can't always sweep through and clear waiting rooms of this trash and sometimes aren't aware of unapproved missionaries on the premises. I suggest reporting such people to security if they're cornering people waiting for word about the condition of their loved ones or if they are patients in beds or waiting for their own medical procedures.

My husband worked in hospital administratration for about twenty years. He said his facility had strict rules against religious trespassers and unapproved materials being left in lobbies and waiting rooms. Security ousted anyone who did not check in and have official paroval to be there. Housekeeping dumped material left by those with a cult agenda. Some of this stuff actually contradicts medical reality. This was the cas with the morg mishies who promised the mother her child would survive if she would agree to baptism.

Report these offenses to hospital officials. They'll thank you for it. The patients and their emotionally vulnerable families would thank you if they could.


Subject: I think they should only be there to speak to their own members.
Date: Jun 21 13:05

One time I found JW and mormon literature in the waiting room at the doctor's office. I took it to the front desk and complained. I never saw it again. I think it's important for the doctor or hospital to be aware of what is happening and know that it is making people uncomfortable. Most hospitals now have good security and so could do a better job of policing this kind of thing if they knew what to look for.


Subject: Missionaries & Recruiters are not mentors & supporters
Date: Jun 21 13:49
Author: Ruth

Families & patients are clients in a facility at times like that. They need their own supporters, not missionaries & recruiters using a chisel on their vulnerability like a mountain climbing expedition trying to rope them in.

One time when I was in the hospital next to ICU for heavier nursing support for an unidentified mass which had started with an organ but infiltrated my abdominal cavity. . . I had IV support & a pain pump but it was my young husband initially conscious & who needed to be supported. & in his vulnerability he, he turned not to an assigned HT program or the new ward 'bishop' who did drop in once- as a convert from catholicsm with an uncle who was actually a monk- he turned to his real support. a Father in the community who had a church right next to the hospital, he had developed a prior relationship with, which became a 19 year relationship talking with him & dropping in to St Brigids'- which was authentic support to him. That was who my husband was, my friend & lover was a Catholic Diest who loved trees before he even met me. This was authentic. Support doesn't work if its not real- it has to be from the past or core of who you are or it will generate even more anxiety. comfortless.
He even had the priest drop in at night to sit with me when he was out. The priest asked permission if he would pray with me and just stay there a while without talking.
I recall our neighbors from across a field, Marilee Smith and her husband visiting several times and supporting us until they moved to Idaho. They were a real support to me.

not strangers- not missionaries. Each person needs their own authentic -real person- from their own culture or background, with experiences, assumptions, and vocabulary which is not contrived to simply be there - -

Cheryl it should be illegal for recruiters to move in to someone's space that they have to be in as a patient or client's family & attempt to commandeer them in their vulnerability- to carve up their mind and orchestrate their resources as a new conductor when their family members' risk of dying increases their vulnerability. Its a classic brainwashing technique to break someone down then rebuild them. using the hospitalization as that break down, swooping in to rebuild is immoral.


Subject: Suggestion: Contact CNN on this one - it would make an interesting exposé about religious zealots...
Date: Jun 21 14:09
Author: Prof. Plum the US, including Mormon mishies, preying on the psychologically/emotionally vulnerable. A recognized cult professional like Steven Hassan could be interviewed to explain why such tactics are used by them.


Subject: It's common in hospitals for a patient or the family to request their religious representatives:
Date: Jun 21 14:18
Author: SusieQ#1

priest, pastor, minister, bishop, home teachers, etc. etc.
The key word here is: request.

I have been in hospitals when a priest or pastor or bishop or home teachers are requested for spiritual support, prayers, blessings and other religious rituals.

I have been in hospitals where there is a nun, or some other religious representative that is a volunteer at the hospital that visits every single patient and asks how they are doing and if they want prayers, etc. etc. I found it very comforting when I was a patient, even though I didn't want or need their particular kind of spiritual support at that time.

From my experience and observation, anyone with a religious ID of some sort can visit a patient as long as they are requested and provide the spiritual support they want.

Many walk in and out with impunity.

The chapel often has a Bible, for instance. I would expect to see a Book of Mormon in hospitals in Utah, for instance

I often drop off magazines and children's books to hospitals/clinics with the reception-volunteers who make a determination about if and where they want to use them.

What the missionaries did was inappropriate as a hospital (lounge, waiting room, hospital room, parking lot, etc. ) is not a place to proselytize in any form whatsoever.
That was an opportunity for the hospital administrators to take action, alert the LDS Church locals what is going on and stop it.


Subject: I support requests for clergy. I favor having chapels in hospitals.
Date: Jun 21 18:57
Author: Cheryl

What is NOT good are sneaky religion peddlers who sneak into hospitals to prey on vulnerable patients and their families. That practice needs to end and those who agree can complain to security or to administration. That will put a stop to it.


Subject: If no one makes a report of the egregious behavior to the people in charge,
Date: Jun 21 19:00
Author: SusieQ#1

it may continue.
They can't stop what they don't know about.

I am absolutely sure the mission president would not approve of the missionaries behavior in the incident reported in the other thread.


Subject: you brought up BoM, 'healing'...
Date: Jun 21 19:36
Author: Guy Noir, Private Eye

IIRC, there isn't much 'comforting' in the to the Bible, 23rd Psalm, etc. (I'm not much up on that part anyway).

In MOST respects, the BoM (again, my perspective) is a GIANT disappointment compared to the Bible...

Last outing to a Catholic Church was for a neighbor's funeral, the children (abt my age) were there, & definately comforted by the Mass.

While I agree with your opinion, 'legally' it's up to hosp. admin to allow or disallow most anything they will in the common areas. There are at least TWO types of hosp. ownership - proprietary ('for profit'), and non-profit, including govt, religious, and misc. N-Ps.

Sometimes they, and what they can/can't do gets confused.

Isn't it surprising how ppl will 'turn to God' when something like an illness or death happens?

Oh Well.


Subject: Re: Mishies and cult materials need to be banned from hospitals.
Date: Jun 21 14:48
Author: Peter Doubt

Hell, on my mission we were trained to hunt down people like this who's "ramparts" were broken. We were told that they would be more humble and receptive to the spirit.

In reality, their rational faculties were compromised and were were exploiting it.

It is a dirty business to prey upon the weak.


Subject: The missionaries volunteer at the local hospitals.
Date: Jun 21 14:57
Author: steffie

A friend of mine was a translator for a year at a hospital, and said that was the most rewarding part of his mission. I now wonder if that was so because of converts, or because he actually was able to help people. It is very common for missionaries to volunteer at our hospitals, so unless they are being monitored 24/7 while on the premises, chances are they will be able to sell their religion to those most vulnerable.


Subject: Very well said, Cheryl. It is *disgusting* that they prey on scared, grieving people like they do!
Date: Jun 21 15:09
Author: Tiphanie

You're exactly right that we can all help make sure that *any* sales literature, be it religious or not, ONLY remain where it is *wanted* or *permitted*.

The rest is garbage and should be treated as such.

This would actually be a very good news story, hospitals and the messed up people of all kinds who prey upon the vulnerable people in hospitals. Whether they're mormon zealots, JWs, families who try to get sick/dying relatives to change their wills... there is SO much sick, predatory behavior in hospitals that we can all help put a lid on. This is something the news could help out with. This is something we can all keep an eye on and proactively report when needed to help protect the vulnerable hospital population.


Subject: when I was a (non mo) missionary we had a relationship with a nursing home
Date: Jun 21 15:49

Every week we went in. For six months I lead this outreach every week. (I worked at a ministry (YWAM) that took students right out of high school and mentored them for 3 months.) We had very specific instructions.

We always offered a "service." It was in a common room, but only those that wanted to come were brought down. It was not forced on anyone. We'd usually sing a few songs (the same ones every week- those that came down from their rooms liked knowing what to expect and know the words) and someone would share a small, short testimony. Sometimes someone would play an instrument- say if we had someone with us that played the violin or something. Sometimes we'd do silly skits- religious or not.

After that (usually between 25-30 minutes) we'd go to the other common rooms and play checkers or whatever with them. Some of us that were regulars and had relationships with specific patients would sit with them in their rooms, listen to stories about their kids, their past, whatever they wanted to talk about. You could tell it meant the world to them to go through old photo albums and tell stories to someone who had the time to listen. Sometime residents wanted to be read to. During this time we had strict instructions to NOT bring up religion in any way. If the resident brought it up we were free to talk to them, but we were not allowed to start such conversations. We also stressed that no one should "push" the salvation prayer on anyone or try to convert them. (Although there was this cute old black guy who LOVED to "get saved" every week. So sweet!) We made cards and banners and other crafts for their rooms. Our goal wasn't to "save" people, but to love them.

Some may disagree with me, but I think THAT'S how that kind of thing should be handled. We had a relationship with the nursing home- they invited us in. We had a set portion of the night that was "religious." The rest of the time was the same thing any other volunteer would do- and they didn't have to come to the "service" to spend time with us afterward. They looked forward to us coming, and the staff was grateful because they knew we could be trusted and it provided the residents with company and entertainment that the staff was stretched to thin to provide.

But I can see nursing homes being another big target for the Mos, which is sad.


Subject: The non-denominational hospital where my DH worked had a full time nun
Date: Jun 21 19:08
Author: Cheryl

to counsel patients and their families if they were interested. Other religious denominations were called in as requested.

BUT no patient or visitor was ever pressured to join a new religion or sit with someone except by their own choice. No religious materials were left out in lobbies or waiting rooms. Anyone caught trying to sneak it in or distribute it was considered a trespasser and unauthorized pamphlets and handouts were trashed. Those who left such materials were considered litterbugs or vandals.

No one goes to a hospital because they are seeking to find a BofM or a Watchtower. The public knows where to get such material if that's what they want.


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