|Subject:||Elizabeth Smart playing the harp in the streets of Paris...|
|Date:||Jun 11, 2010|
|Yesterday (Thursday, June 10) I saw a pathetic scene
and I HAD to report it.
I was walking the streets of Paris, right by the Centre Georges Pompidour, in central Paris, and guess what?
I BUMPED INTO ELIZABETH SMART PLAYING THE HARP !! In broad daylight, out in the street!
The scene was SO pathetic !!! A sunny Summer afternoon, in sophisticated Paris, in front of one of the best modern art museums in the world, a group of Utah missionary hillbillies trying to seduce highly secular French passers-by with a harp !!
I was so embarrassed for Smart and for the other missionaries that were around her, trying to approach people.
What does this cult have in mind???
Don't they have a clue of how PATHETIC they can get ????
Not a thousand golden harps (played by golden blondes) will EVER convince the secular/rational French that
* wine is evil (and so is coffee, tea, cigarettes and masturbation)
* tithing paid to an American corporation is a requirement for owning a galaxy and a harem in the afterlife
* you need to wear magic underwear made in Utah (where?????)
* angels fly around with golden plates
* Native American white Jews wrote books in "Reformed Egyptian" (that were later translated into fake Elizabethan English with magic stones)...
Get a grip, Mormon cult !!!!
Here is a photo: (more details further on this thread)
|Date:||Jun 13 07:35|
|My camera is out of order, and I had only taken a
picture (for my personal use) with my cellphone.
Here it is.
But once I again, I don't care if someone doesn't believe it.
You can always say that it is a photomontage, a hoax, a lie. I simply don't care.
Once again I proclaim: I have NOTHING to prove. I am not getting paid for this, I am not a KSL journalist, and I owe no explanations.
|Subject:||Been there myself.|
|Date:||Jun 13 13:18|
|That's the south edge of the plaza to the west of the
Centre Pompidou. This is the closest I could get on Google Maps:
The fence with the bikes in the middle right of the picture is the same
as the one behind Elizabeth Smart in Dave's picture. You can even see that
she is set up right in front of the bollards that appear on the right of the
Google Maps image.
|Subject:||Was there a tip jar or was the harp case open to throw euros in? n/t|
|Subject:||No... Besides, the euros that they DO expect in tithing from converts will NEVER come. :) n.t.|
|Subject:||It makes you wonder what the missionaries were thinking|
|Date:||Jun 11 10:53|
|maybe, "if we play music in the street people will
want to join our cult"? Who knows, but they can sit in the street and play
music or approach people and be turned down all day long. They probably
decided on the music.
Thanks for the update on her. Very weird.
|Subject:||Re: It makes you wonder what the missionaries were thinking|
|Date:||Jun 11 10:59|
|Ed Smart was probably trying to make some money off of this somehow.|
|Subject:||Exploiting the already exploited - pathetic and weird (oh I mean "peculiar") n/t|
|Subject:||The Mormons I knew when there were so many monks and Moonies|
|Date:||Jun 11 10:59|
|and flower children begging in airports? They were
creeped out by having 'odd' people approach them.
They will never see themselves as the odd ones, even in that surreal situation you stumbled into.
Thanks for the report!
|Subject:||We were ALWAYS pulling crap like that...|
|Date:||Jun 11 11:07|
|But what is soooo short sighted here is that they are playing uninspired/mediocre/uninteresting hymns or church music in a region of the world where classical music is revered and fully understood. It would be like presenting a world famous chef with green bean casserole and expecting him to call you master.|
|Date:||Jun 11 11:08|
|Thanks for this thread, it was very well said. And I'm embarrassed for them just reading it. But what do you want to bet we'll see a picture of it in a Utah newspaper?|
|Subject:||Why do you consider street musicians pathetic?|
|Date:||Jun 11 11:10|
|OK, I get the cult thing being annoying but I'm not sure why someone playing music in the street is pathetic. I actually enjoy listening to music on the street. Even if it's bad it is usually authentic.|
|Subject:||Playing music for the sake of art...|
|Date:||Jun 11 11:14|
|Playing the music for the sake of art is not pathetic
But what I DO find pathetic is a cult trying to use a harp to try to seduce passers-by.
(As I said, "Sister" Smart was sitting, playing the hard, and a bunch of elders where around, approaching people, hoping that passers-by were in tears because of a harp and therefore willing to join a looney cult.)
|Subject:||How come she gets to bring her instrument.?|
|Date:||Jun 11 11:15|
|Is it common for missionaries to bring musical instruments? I was under the impression that this was against the rules. Would a missionary be allowed to bring a guitar?|
|Subject:||I asked myself the same question...|
|Date:||Jun 11 11:18|
|15 years ago, when I went on a mission, instruments
were not allowed.
But Sister Smart is "special"... And special people follow special rules in Mormondom.
|Subject:||When I was on my mission|
|Date:||Jun 11 13:00|
|in Germany, I was her Aunt's comp. S. Smart was given permission to go to the ward house and practice the piano several days a week. What I was told was that if playing an instrument is your profession before going on a mission, you were allowed to bring that instrument with you and practice so you didn't lose your ability.|
|Subject:||A friend of mine bought a guitar on his mission in Brazil|
|Date:||Jun 11 13:13|
|His guitar skills approved tremendously while on his mission, so I'm assuming he practiced a lot on his free days. He also wrote a bunch of songs. He's really quite a talented guy, but he's been struggling with the LDS church as he's often attracted to artistic, non-Mormon girls. If only he would give up the church now. :)|
|Subject:||Depends on the instrument, I think|
|Date:||Jun 11 14:11|
|My extended family are serious violin players. They
all got to take their violins, and this is over a period of 30+ years--two
generations of missionaries. My trumpet player was not invited to take his
trumpet. I vaguely remember some explanation about what kinds of instruments
were welcome and what kind were not, but I don't remember it now.
As for Elizabeth playing on the street, while I agree with the OP that it is "pathetic" to think they will win converts this way, it sounds like a relatively fun thing for Elizabeth to be doing, as compared to, say, tracting.
A friend whose son went on a mission to France told me that in his mission, they mostly did community service kinds of things, trying to build up the church's reputation rather than directly trying to find converts, which I guess is a real exercise in futility.
At least E gets to do something she is good at and enjoys, become proficient in a language and experience French culture. Hopefully, it will be a life-changing experience for her.
|Subject:||Re: Elizabeth Smart playing the harp in the streets of Paris...|
|Date:||Jun 11 11:11|
|Oh how sick. How they use her and she allows it. I would have barfed at the site. So where and when is their next engagement?|
|Subject:||Next engament:: there was a sign..|
|Date:||Jun 11 11:16|
|There was a sign close to Smart mentioning some
But I was too embarrassed to come closer and check the details.
|Subject:||Re: Next engament:: there was a sign..|
|Date:||Jun 11 11:22|
|Oh heavens sake....and I was just joking. Yes, that engagement will be to start the love bombing and setting up appts. and such.|
|Subject:||Street musicans are not pathetic. It is religion doing this that is pathetic. The motab choir could|
|Date:||Jun 11 11:19|
|go out to street corners all around the world with a
Since tscc is "hurting for money" this could help finance professional janitors that would make their buildings pleasant to meet in.
|Subject:||How were people reacting as they went by?...|
|Date:||Jun 11 11:29|
|Were they stopping to listen? Did they show much interest at all?|
|Subject:||Where is a good video-documentary maker when you need one?|
|Date:||Jun 11 11:36|
|I wish someone would video tape that and then
interview the passersby about what they thought!
Can you imagine the comments?
(Maybe it's better just to let my imagination run wild!)
|Subject:||Funny how history repeats itself...|
|Date:||Jun 11 11:39|
|If the French knew the truth of Smart's history, they
would probably be very turned off by a cult exploiting this young lady. The
mishes bank on the French being clueless about her history.
Similarly, the early mishes in Europe knew if the Europeans found out about polygamy and polyandry, which similarly involved the exploitation of young women, they would have been very turned off by it (and they eventually were as word got out). Those early mishes also banked on the Europeans being clueless.
It would be nice to see a French Newspaper pick this up.
|Subject:||It would be nice to see a French Newspaper pick this up.|
|Date:||Jun 11 12:46|
|Why would a French newspaper take any interest in the doings of a weird little sect like the Mormons? There are 31.000 of them in France, my friend Google tells me - of 64 million French inhabitants. Proportionally, that would correspond to 150.000 Mormons in the US.|
|Subject:||Because her story is so fascinating, i.e. a Human Interest Story..|
|Date:||Jun 11 12:58|
|I agree the French would care less about TSCC, but may find the whole thing fascinating. That's all I meant.|
|Subject:||Dave, when we heard she went to Paris, there was some|
|Date:||Jun 11 12:00|
|discussion here about how only the better looking,
better educated, well connected kids get prime assignments like that.
The less attractive kids get sent to podunk south america.
I'd be interested in your assessment of the other missionaries if you see them again.
|Subject:||I'd love to enjoy harp music on a Paris street.|
|Date:||Jun 11 12:03|
|Nothing wrong with that. However, I wouldn't like the hayseed mishie boys shaking me down.|
|Subject:||Is she as cute in person as she looks on TV?|
|Date:||Jun 11 12:32|
|Hey, a man's gotta know these things! And I'm not the only guy on here who was thinking it, either...LOL|
|Subject:||No, I didn't think she was particularly cute...|
|Date:||Jun 11 12:52|
|No, I didn't think she was particularly cute. Too
teenage-looking, too bland, nothing really special.
(If she had told me that she was 16, I would have believed her.)
|Subject:||A performing monkey for LDS, Inc. n/t|
|Subject:||Yup, a real 'dog and pony' show. Not for the enjoyment of folks but to snare suckers. n/t|
|Subject:||Ahhh. Your comment started organ-grinder music playing in my ears! I can see...|
|Date:||Jun 11 12:55|
|...all the mishies wearing fez caps and clanging tiny
|Subject:||At least she gets to keep playing her instrument on her mission . . .|
|Date:||Jun 11 12:52|
|That's probably therapeutic and she won't have to rebuild her technique and skills when she comes home. If you ask me, she's lucky. I hope she can remain oblivious that she's just their performing monkey (as somebody already mentioned in the thread).|
|Subject:||Re: Elizabeth Smart playing the harp in the streets of Paris...|
|Date:||Jun 11 13:06|
On the one hand, I love music too, and I've enjoyed many a street performance in Europe. On the other hand.......*sigh*.
I guess they really DON'T see how this comes off to other people, and/or wouldn't care if somebody told them. I've personally wished Elizabeth Smart all the best, after having gone through the ordeal she suffered. But this is definitely someone who's being exploited for TSCC, and she's unwittingly allowing it.
I remember a missionary in my ex's Belgium-Brussels mission who was a pianist, and I think they occasionally set up some fireside type concerts with him playing, knowing that a professional musician is always a good cultural lure. I'm pretty sure almost all of the folks that were baptized during his tenure are long gone. He took a trip a couple years back to visit them and there weren't many left to visit.
|Subject:||Makes you embarrassed to be an American nowadays. N/T|
|Subject:||O_M_G! If I were her mother, I would stop this! Yes, "exploitation" is the word.|
|Date:||Jun 11 14:27|
|This is so pathetic! This is way too similar to what
she did for her abductors!
This is street begging, and pandering!
What a perfect example of how a cult can persuade Elizabeth to do something that she ordinarily would never, ever do! She does still need therapy!
Oh! Here comes the anger again! >^..^<
|Subject:||Someone in Paris probably let her borrow theirs...|
|Date:||Jun 12 02:46|
|Here's a blog that I found on Google:
She is in several pictures playing, while on her mission (not in the streets, but in a chapel).
|Subject:||Wow, some of that blog is creepy and the missionaries come off as stupid.|
|Date:||Jun 12 12:14|
|Check this entry:
"On March 29th, the missionaries invited us to go along with them to visit Vimy. We were so happy to go and it was a very interesting trip. We had so much fun together. We took 2 cars. In our car we took 4 sisters, but since there are only 3 spots in the back, one of them had to lie across the laps of the other 3. They didn't care. They laughed and giggled the whole way. The elders had to put one of the missionaries in the trunk. Luckily we were not that far away, only a bit over half an hour."
An elder riding in the trunk of a car for an hour?? WTF?! Makes me feel like the missionaries have gotten considerably dumber since I served in the FPM.
|Subject:||Oh, and FWIW, the chapel in that blog is probably Villeneuve-d'Ascq / Lille.|
|Date:||Jun 12 12:25|
|I guess French-speaking Belgium is now part of the
Paris Mission - or Elizabeth Smart is being sent around the mission with
three other sisters to perform these concerts. That wouldn't be surprising,
but it's very old-school to have missionaries assigned as traveling
|Subject:||Re: Oh, and FWIW, the chapel in that blog is probably Villeneuve-d'Ascq / Lille.|
|Date:||Jun 13 13:05|
|Sounds like a thing the Mormons would do....bring them to JS through music...UGH!!!|
|Subject:||Now that right there is some mindless church babbling.|
|Date:||Jun 12 13:11|
|I'd burst into flames if I had to hang around that.|
|Subject:||"worldwide attention" because of a harp (played by American cultists..)|
|Date:||Jun 12 07:50|
P.S.: If you did serve in France, you seem to have spent too much time with other Americans (companions) or Third-World immigrants (the only ones who occasionally give attention to cultists in France), because you fail to have a minimum understanding of the French.
It takes a LOT more than a harp to get "worldwide" attention in France, specially in Paris.
I've seen first-class concerts with all kinds of instruments (including harps) in certain stations of the Paris metro, and people simply walk by.
Blasé? Go figure.
Smart is a perfect stranger in France. Just like her cult.
(No harp will change it.)
|Subject:||You're 100% right...|
|Date:||Jun 12 18:22|
|It's not surprising that Mormons think that Elizabeth
Smart, in all her blondness, playing the harp, will attract people to
inquire about her church. They also think that places like Paris and London
are exactly what they see on the travel channel. That lawyers are the
smartest people on Earth. That a big house and a big car means you have
wealth. That playing a harp is sophisticated, classy, and will attract the
Mormons are just the right amount of business-scam, middle-American, redneck, and low-brow mix that it's embarrassing to admit to myself that I had anything to do with them. (In my defense, I was a minor.)
|Subject:||That sounds like pan handling.|
|Date:||Jun 12 10:41|
|Does she have a hat on the ground in front of the
harp? With only $40 per week for food I wouldn't be surprised if
MissMoMisshys have to find ways to generate additional income. Better to pan
handle that resort to older professions in the red-light districts.
Maybe she could do street theater and act out sceans from her experience with bearded guy in the woods.
|Subject:||Technically, it's busking. It's a perfectly good way to make some extra dough. n/t|
|Subject:||Sooner or later KSL will report this kind of crap and you will have "proof".|
|Date:||Jun 12 11:39|
|As for me, I have nothing to prove.
Those who choose to not believe it, it's their problem.
Once again: nobody pays my bills, so I don't owe anyone any "proof" whatsoever.
And the invitation is still there: come to rue Saint Merri in Paris and check the sign on the window of the cult's building: an invitation to many of Smart's concerts.
|Subject:||My take on this whole thing...|
|Date:||Jun 12 13:05|
|First of all, I don't know if this story is true.
However if the poster "Dave" is the same one I've seen off and on here I
have no reason to think he is trying to stir up anything.
What I have noticed is what missionaries do in my town. My town is at least half LDS. I can't imagine anyone in my town that doesn't already know quite enough about Mormons. What is a missionary to do?
I've noticed they like to do things they think provide a service. They think they are doing something nice. They might help out with a fund raiser. They might help organize s community concert thinking they are providing a service.
Of course these are overtly Mormon lures to us that know their ultimate motives. They hope people will see they are nice. They hope people will see Mormons are helpful people who want to do nice things. I think this is might be behind what Dave saw.
|Subject:||There are lots harder things to believe|
|Date:||Jun 12 13:23|
|than poor weird Elizabeth Smart sitting on a sidewalk
in Paris like Miss Priss, playing the harp.
I vote that it happened.
|Subject:||I believe his story. Carole Mikita on KSL will probably report on it. n/t|
|Date:||Jun 13 13:23|
|...I know you don't care if anyone believes you or
not, but thanks for posting a photo anyway. It's truly bizarre that she's
doing this. Another poster mentioned because the act is so crazy, it's
obvious it's real since behavior like this would only happen in the Morg. I
Strangely enough, when I posted my comment below with the subject line about Julia Roberts, your Photo! post wasn't listed or I would've thanked you instead of the blog-photo-posting people.
When I get to France (next summer), we can toast with a lovely glass of wine if you'll share a drink with me (my treat).
|Subject:||Julia Roberts IMO is also beautiful.|
|Date:||Jun 13 12:23|
My subject line considers a second opinion we don't have in common.
From the blog pics, the mission field in France has changed since I was there over twenty years ago. We weren't allowed to bring instruments although at the time I brought mine, a flute. A blog photo shows four female missionaries and a few are holding their flutes with Elizabeth Smart in the mix. Wow. Crazy.
The photo from the blog gave me the information I was hoping for that you didn't want to supply (your prerogative). In addition to the photo, others have also vouched for your credentials so I'm more apt to sway towards your statement. I like to weigh everything before making a decision.
Thanks to everyone for all the opinions, photos and statements. They are appreciated.
|Subject:||EDIT: I see the picture. Now I see what is going on. A picture says a 1000 words!|
|Date:||Jun 13 12:30|
|My apologies if I didn't believe at first.|
|Subject:||Re: Get over it. I am. n/t Oh ya, how soon we want evidence before we believe! :-) nt|
|Subject:||So true! n/t|
|Subject:||To add to what Dave is saying (*edited)|
|Date:||Jun 13 13:00|
|The main LDS building in the middle of Paris (Paris
Ward, Paris Stake) is in fact at 12 rue Saint-Merri, right in the block
behind the Centre Georges Pompidou. The Centre Pompidou is primarily known
as the site of the National Museum Modern Art. It's the big building with
all the pipes on the outside.
Here's a Google map showing the layout:
(*I've corrected the link to show the location of Elizabeth Smart in Dave's picture.)
The missionaries used to have some sort of visitor's center set up there, and if I remember correctly, that's where institute was also held.
It would be no big deal for them to keep a harp there for Elizabeth Smart to use, and nor would it be that big of a deal for her to wheel it across the street to either the plaza in front of (to the west of) the Centre Georges Pompidou or the one to the south by rue Brisemiche.
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