There might have been more to this story.
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I doubt specific numbers are available. Before the "rescue" Sweden had about 9400 members. Do we have any Swedish RfM posters that can give us at least some anecdotal evidence about the effect of Mattson's partial defection and subsequent press?
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When ever money is a motive the message is corruptible. I've never been much for fence sitting acolytes like Dehlin or Joanna Brooks flitting around the foyer looking for a way to monetize.
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Hi deconverted, sorry if I offended you. I didn't quite mean it that way. What I meant is that they are not paid clergy, but are deployed at home, locally. They remain in their own home, keep working at their same job and are not on any church payroll. That's what I was getting at when I said local.
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I've only personally known 5 area authorities, none of them had or have been mission presidents and only one of them had been a Stake President, although he presided over a stake with maybe 200 active members. Both mission presidents and area authorities report to the area president (a member of the 1st Quorum), although in my experience Area Authorities have been less experienced in church me
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They are just in different chains of command, and as far as temple president, it depends on what temple. Temple Pres of a big temple like Salt Lake or San Diego or DC, that's a big job, temple pres in Uganda not so much. Neither Area Authorities or Temple President have any authority over a mission president and I would dare say most Area Authorities would defer to a mission president in the
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2000 years ago, the earliest Christians were anticipating Jesus's immediate glorious return. This expectation has been around since day 1.
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It's not a particularly demanding calling, it's a weekend Sunday calling. Being the bishop of a full fledged ward in Mordor is a much more demanding calling. As far as them "seeing too much", they don't really have that level of frequent access. Again, a lot of them are fantastic individuals, but I'm trying to keep the significance of disaffection in perspective.
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I very much enjoyed the NYT article about the disaffected member from Sweden and I commend the man for his quest for truth. However I find the comment that he is the highest ranking official to disaffect a little amusing. Both counselors in the first presidency of Joseph Smith went AWOL, William Law very much went public about his disaffection. As far as the SL Church is concerned, there we
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Both counselors in the first presidency of Joseph Smith went AWOL, William Law very much went public about his disaffection. As far as the SL Church is concerned, there were early apostles but George P Lee of the 1st Quorum of the 70 was the highest ranking official to become disaffected and rebel in modern times. Third Quorum aka Area Authority is not a general authority, it is a temp part
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LOL I think Pierce Brosnan is probably more interesting. With only a couple of exception among the ones I know, they are all pretty full of themselves, and if you are not under the spell of the cult they don't really have much of interest to say. I sat at a table next to Robert Duvall in Park City a couple of years ago, and I once got dirty look from Robert Redford at the Gateway mall for st
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I specifically remember as a high school senior, sitting in the back yard of a good friend who was contemplating going on a mission. I didn't want to go and I said, "I don't believe Joseph Smith saw God for one minute, that story seems ridiculous to me". Unfortunately after some resistance I caved to the social and family pressure exerted on any Mormon boy growing up in Salt Lake and
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I had lunch with Dieter a few years ago in Salt Lake City, and though the conversation was just casual he seemed intelligent. So it saddens me that as soon as he says "I bring you the blessings of Thomas S. Monson", my CULT ALERT goes to DEFCON 10, meaning he's a cultural huckster and no other opinion from his muddled brain is of any interest to me. Window closed.
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GP nails it here, except that I don't think his career will be as lucrative as you suggest.
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n/t
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Nice pick up Munchy. It does bother me when people focus on former "callings" as if that defines me. That I was a former what ever is so far removed from what I am now. But it's something that gets focused on and I've gotten used to it.
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Hmmmm, because I didn't write that, I don't think it and I never thought it. If I'd written it I would freely admit it and just say I changed my view, but I'm sorry Mak, I never wrote or thought that recovery has an ending. I encouraged people to describe what "recovered" means to them. Maybe using the past tense like that made you think I was suggesting there was an end to it and I ca
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see, that's the funny thing and I've been trying to tell you, I never wrote that and I don't think that, far from it. But I don't doubt you interpreted it that way. What I just posted for you is exactly my first post before I changed it.
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Mak, I made the changes precisely because I realized I was being misunderstood and that people were taking offense. I haven't changed how I feel, just how I wrote about it. Here is what I originally wrote, word for word before any edits. It was written without sensitivity or context, and you are absolutely right that was my fault and I apologize for the offense I gave. You can read it now and
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Here is something I wrote that will give you more context. I wrote this the year the Bush Admin tried to amend the US Constitution before they settled for DOMA, so the political references are dated but the story is the same. I hope you like it. http://rfmorg.wordpress.com/2008/06/27/tales-from-a-mission-president/
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Ha ha that's and understatement Jacob, and it's my fault. You might notice that those that knew me from "back in the day" got what I was saying, exactly because they had that context and know what I'm about. Those that didn't know me took offense, and it was my fault. I guess I should stop by more often, or shut up. :)
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You are absolutely right. I didn't include much detail and a lot of assumptions were made. You are absolutely right, that was my error. Go back and read my original post and you will see that people were reading their own assumptions into what I wrote and then responding passionately to the strawmen they created. I get that. It never occurred to me that I might be saying "just get over i
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Thanks mystic and you are right. THAT in a nutshell is the magic of RfM. A band of strangers brought together almost as a family, old friends that have never met, and able to learn that they are not alone.
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Let me break it down for you. I have a friend, and very good friend, a friend I've known for decades, who has become angry and hard to be around because he's become so obsessed with being a gay man. A man who was once the life of the party and a joy to be with is rapidly becoming difficult to be around. When I first left Mormonism, I was much the same way, so much so that we were once asked
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You like to feel offended don't you? I'm sorry that's just one assumption, very much like the many you've made about me.
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I'm sorry but you have no idea what my experience or feelings are toward the gay community. I don't usually respond this abruptly but I'm a little tired of the stereotype assumptions about me or "where I'm coming from". Please don't assume you know because I'm quite sure you are entirely wrong.
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You probably noticed what I just said to Raptor. I didn't really flesh out the "gay part" of my post because it wasn't the point. The friend I wrote about is destroying his life, loosing friends and employment and is settling into a seething anger about all the injustices he's experienced. He's gone so far as to attack and loose the friendship of those that completely support him. I
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Raptor, yes he's lost several friends, at least one job, for ranting about bigotry to some clients and his partner has repeatedly told me (and him) that he's tired of the anger. My friend has forgotten how to be happy and is now quite sure that the world owes him happiness to make up for his suffering. It would be one thing if he ranted to bigots, but he yells at his friends who already agree wi
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Nice to see you still here and holding down the fort. I hope everything is ok!
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You read it correctly as I intended. It never occurred to me that anyone on RfM would take me for a troll. But then, I have been pretty scarce.
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