|Subject:||Received 'Shaken Faith Syndrome' book for Xmas.|
|Date:||Dec 25, 2008|
|My soon-to-be ex-wife's parents gave me the gift that
just keeps on giving. The 'Shaken Faith Syndrome' book.
Signed by DW's parents and even MY parents who live out of state and haven't spoken with me since I announced I would be resigning from the LDS church.
Wife says there's still a chance for me to fix this if I'll repent, go to the Bishop with my concerns, and allow the 'spirit' back into my life.
I opened the package wrapped in beautiful wrapping paper to find a Smithmas card with testimonies from her parents, my parents, wifey herself, and other less-connected family members sharing about how happy the gospel has made them.
I remained silent. Everyone stared at me, awaiting some kind of spiritual intervention that would somehow manifest itself - after all, the spirit testifies of truth, right?
I was speechless. 'Have any of you read this?' I asked. 'No, no. We bought it for YOU to read.' replied my father-in-law. My mother-in-law quickly chirped, 'It has all the answers to those questions you've been thinking about.'
I grabbed my coat and keys. Left the book on a table in the dining room.
I heard my mother-in-law whisper to someone, 'Well, that's rude. He didn't even stay for dinner.'
I ignored it.
I enjoyed a quiet drive back to my home.
So, here I am at home. Writing to tell you about my wonderful Christmas present.
|Subject:||How RUDE of them!|
|Date:||Dec 25 19:47|
|It would be so tempting to have said "Oh, you guys
don't believe in allowing people to worship how, where or what they may
after all? Wow, that's amazing! So what else do you pick and choose to
believe about your religion??"
But that might have been "snarky"... or not...?
|Subject:||Sounds more like an intervention than a gift exchange. How lame! n/t|
|Subject:||TBMs only accept you if you are one of THEM. :-D|
|Date:||Dec 25 19:58|
|If you are not, or are not at least *seeking the
truth*, they want nothing to do with you.
*THE MORG IS A GIANT NEON SIGN FLASHING CULT-CULT-CULT*
|Subject:||I'm sorry. Their compassion and sensitivity are underwhelming! n/t|
|Subject:||I'm so sorry. Return the favor by sending them|
|Date:||Dec 25 20:35|
|"The Demon Haunted World" and if you can find one autographed by Carl Sagan, even better.|
|Subject:||I am so sorry this happened,|
|Date:||Dec 25 20:41|
|Christmas day with an agenda.. Good on you for having
the gumption and courage to walk out of that set up.
I am always amazed that religious people try to prove the truth of their religion by beating others over the head with it!!
|Subject:||Nice of them to put the squeeze on you for Xmas:|
|Date:||Dec 25 20:48|
|"We can't be secure in our own faith unless everyone
we know reinforces our beliefs."
And to make a "gift" out of it?
What colossal bores ...
Cheers - and forget about their little psychodrama.
|Subject:||Say "I'll read this book if you read Fawn Brodie" n/t|
|Subject:||How self centered, narcissistic can a family be that places their religion above a family member|
|Date:||Dec 25 20:53|
|Author:||Old Timer 2|
|I feel for you.
I received one letter of repentance and one faith promoting video from my immediate family.
I understand what you are feeling.
What they are saying is their church is more important than a family member and it really hurts.
I honestly shouldn't tell you how to respond to this, but I would kindly and respectfully tell all family involved that their actions prove they are involved in a cult and you would hope for their sake they could somehow find the truth.
Perhaps kick a few links towards Richard Packham's website and hope they aren't too proud to admit they might be wrong.
|Subject:||Bad form, them; Congratulations, you!|
|Date:||Dec 25 20:54|
|So their "gift" to *you* was all about them and
nothing about you. What a thoughtful family.
Congratulations on having the guts to draw a very strong boundary by walking out of a very manipulative situation.
|Subject:||Dude, it was wrong of you to leave the book there.....|
|Date:||Dec 25 20:59|
|Miss Manners sez you should have taken the book back to the store for a refund, and used the money to buy something that's actually worth something. :-)|
|Subject:||Ah, the Mormon effort to tell those who have discovered . . .|
|Date:||Dec 25 21:25|
|the church is lies and deception and rightly feel
angry and betrayed that *they* are mentally ill--*they* have a "syndrome."
I admire your clear statement to them of what you thought about their effort.
|Subject:||Wow . . . I don't even have words.|
|Date:||Dec 25 21:44|
|It must feel like someone kicked you in the stomach.
What a lonely stand you took for the truth today.
|Subject:||Dude, you were blindsided. That's the cult at its worst.|
|Date:||Dec 25 21:50|
|It's hard to know what to say when you get blindsided
like that. After you have a chance to collect your thoughts you think of all
the things you could have said. Good thing you did something to express your
disgust. Of course now it reinforces their biases that you are "offended" -
not that it would make much difference what you did they'll behave in their
very conditioned Mor[m]onic way.
Those are some arrogant SOBs. Spouses that issue ultimatums aren't interested in real give and take marriages. So much for peace on earth, goodwill toward men. What dreadful people to not temporarily lay their weapons down at this time of year and not give everyone the benefit of the doubt. Even when I was TBM I looked forward to forgetting about differences at xmas time and spreading good cheer.
Hang in there, bro, we're keeping a good thought for you. Have a Merry Christmas anyway just to spite those f#ckheads.
|Subject:||Well at least my TBM family has the respect to send stuff to me privately.|
|Date:||Dec 25 22:43|
|Not in intervention mode.
This is called SHAMING. They are trying to embarrass you into belief. I wonder if they even realized that this would backfire?
If they had given it to you on an individual private basis, not in a crowd, you probably would have taken it.
Now they will just say that you were OFFENDED.
You SHOULD be OFFENDED!!!
|Subject:||Oh wow, now they have a book that fixes broken testimonkies. Marvelous. nt|
|Subject:||According to the reviews, it should have saved you.|
|Date:||Dec 26 01:13|
|"as I read the second part of your book, it shot down
one by one every single anti-mormon argument that may have ever troubled me"
"This will no doubt turn out to be one of the most important books for LDS members with questions.... In my view this is a watershed publication,” (Dr. Brian Hauglid, associate professor of ancient scripture, BYU; co-editor, Traditions About the Early Life of Abraham)."
"“Every person ...worried about their faith–or the faith of a loved one–should be told about this book. This book should stay in print permanently, with new editions as needed,” (Larry C. Morris, co-author, Oliver Cowdery: Scribe, Elder, Witness)."
Someone told them about the book and they hoped it would save you. It apparently discusses horses, adeiu and all the other problems with the Book of Mormon that they feel they don't need to know about since they have a testimony that it is true. It correctly answers any questions or problems any person would have with the Book of Mormon.
Being mean, I think you should have an intervention with them and discuss every issue the book brings up.
|Subject:||What a funny book title!|
|Date:||Dec 26 00:58|
|As if they can legitimize their stance by inventing a
name for this "syndrome"
Maybe we should come up with a syndrome for the person who is delusional and has faith in absurd things, con artists and perverts....
|Subject:||We have such a syndrome|
|Date:||Dec 26 01:47|
|It is called "Mormonism".|
|Subject:||Indeed. I'm currently writing a book.....|
|Date:||Dec 26 10:02|
|.....detailing how some Mormons stay in the church even though they know it's false. I'm thinking of titling it "Shaken Brain Syndrome."|
|Subject:||I haven't read it|
|Date:||Dec 26 10:44|
|... but I'm guessing the gist of "how to get your testimony back" involves "stop thinking so damn much!"|
|Subject:||Re: Received 'Shaken Faith Syndrome' book for Xmas.|
|Date:||Dec 26 02:51|
|Nice comeback, noname kid.
As for you, Shaken up, I hope you plan the most fun New Year's Eve you ever had--no matter what that is. You deserve it, after your horrid, Mormon hijacked Christmas.
I am so sorry. You were wise to walk out. Sometimes actions speak louder than words. Sometimes, when you are ganged up on like that, nothing you can say will do any good anyway. But--I do like your pointed question: "Have any of you read this?"
Oh, the blind stupidity of those people. They hadn't even read it! Yet, they trusted the advertisers, or Deseret Book, or their Bishop who probably hasn't read it either, and they gave it to you anyway!
I seriously wonder if that book might get them THINKING--which is a very uncomfortable thing for Mormons to do. I wonder if they left it where it lay, or if one of them picked up and started reading. Most likely not--they probably all prayed and read each other's testimonies, and then put your name on the prayer list at the temple. Can't you just feel the love....
How arrogant to say that YOU were the one who should read it, and THEY have such superior faith that they don't have to.
The cowardice of the Mormons is so evident in the way they "gang up on" people! I'm a divorced woman, and I'm home alone on the nights the children aren't here. When I became "less active" here came the Mormons to my front door--late at night--men--in groups of two's, and threes, to always out-number us and intimidate us. Some of them actually threatened us, that God would withdraw His blessings, that our family would suffer. I'm telling you, these people are NASTY, and it has nothing to do with you at all.
You must have felt awful, but I'm so glad you came to this board. You need to be reminded that YOU are in the 99.97 % of the population who either have never heard of Mormons or who think Mormonism is a cult. You are the sane majority. Your family, even though they band together in groups against you, are still tiny, insignificant, and certifiable nut-zo crazy.
It is actually sad. Maybe you have no choice but to just let them go--your wife included. I don't know them, or just how far gone they are. I feel sorry for your children, if you have any. Clearly, your children will need rescuing from this abusive cult! The Mormons focus on innocent children to increase their numbers. Please, do not walk away without taking your children with you, or at least not without opening a door for them, and letting them know they have rights in a free country! This is not Communist China, even though your TBM family would like to have that absolute control of others.
God. I can't imagine your parents not speaking to their own child because of --Mormonism-- a hoax that is all in their mind.
I have been treated badly this Christmas by some Mormons, because this is my first Christmas since officially resigning. I have also had Mormons be very nice to me, too. Your experience is NOT OK. You were very nice and polite to them, to not just blow up and start yelling. Son't feel guilty about walking out. You owe it to yourself to defend yourself. (You did it for all of us, too.)
The Mormon church is an evil cult--and when we force ourselves to forget that, and expect Mormons to be as kind as normal people--that's when we get blind-sided.
Happy New Year! I mean it. You will become stronger because of this, and you might save a few other souls.
|Subject:||Good for you! (And shame on them!)|
|Date:||Dec 26 02:56|
|You handled the situation beautifully.
Now, since they have opened the door, you can reciprocate with any anti book of your choosing.
Make sure it's one you've read. LOL.
|Subject:||They are presuming that you have a problem because you don't believe but also|
|Date:||Dec 26 10:35|
|that they don't have a problem because they do. Where did they ever get the idea that belief is a good thing?|
|Subject:||Re: Received 'Shaken Faith Syndrome' book for Xmas.|
|Date:||Dec 26 15:07|
|I haven't told my parents anything yet about my
unbelief, but they know I've stopped attending church and have been sharing
what I've learned with one of my siblings.
They gave me and my siblings each a framed scripture that they chose specifically for each one of us.
Guess which one I got? The one from Proverbs that says, "...lean not unto thine own understanding..."
And my tbm sibling got the one in D&C that says "...I will go before your face...I will be on your right and on your left..." which is meant for the "righteous" of course (and ripped-off from the bible btw--I hate it when they use a biblical scripture with a mormon source attached to it!)
Not as bad, but I hear ya'!
|Subject:||So basically you were mugged by your own family.|
|Date:||Dec 26 15:23|
|...and then they wonder why people HATE the holidays
so much...and HATE the stupid Mor[m]on cult even more.
Sorry you were the victim of another Mor[m]on Mugging Moment. Sounds like you won't arrive at your new life any too soon!
|Subject:||I can imagine how hurt I might feel if this happened to me.|
|Date:||Dec 26 16:41|
|It sounds insensitive and pushy. There is also the
part where they take a Christmas present and turn it into an intervention.
Holidays are for family celebrations, and it was terrible timing to initiate
a confrontation like this.
I'm not sure it is always a great idea to stay deeply connected to people who *need* you to think and belief something you don't. But, at the same time, it seems as if they are really bothered by feeling the disconnect of you leaving the mormon church.
I mean, it's really bass ackwards, but I guess it's a twisted way of telling you they wish you were still "with" them in their faith.
I'm sorry that they made such a controlling and insensitive gesture in the guise of a gift. I guess they never learned that this was terribly inappropriate behavior.
|Subject:||Re: I can imagine how hurt I might feel if this happened to me.|
|Date:||Dec 26 16:51|
|Punky's Dilemma wrote:
> I mean, it's really bass ackwards, but I guess it's a twisted way of telling you they wish you were still "with" them in their faith.
> I'm sorry that they made such a controlling and insensitive gesture in the guise of a gift. I guess they never learned that this was terribly inappropriate behavior.
It's as if Shaken Up's family can't imagine really connecting with him unless he fits certain parameters and conditions. It is a painful failure of imagination and empathy on their part. Shaken Up deserves better from his family. (So do you!)
|Subject:||Yeah. The mormon culture makes it hard for people to learn to connect...|
|Date:||Dec 26 17:05|
|Outside of some pretty ugly parameters.
It's hard to have family that have poor insight, with deep investment in this culture. Everyone gets put in a tough spot.
Sometimes we don't have the family we deserve. *smiles weakly* It's really unfair to everyone when mormon culture interferes with family relationships and more effective processes of resolving conflict.
I appreciate your compassion. I think about this time every year I go into hard-core coping mode just to deal with family/church stuff. :)
|Subject:||Now, you should feel free to give them as many faith-demoting books and e-mail as you like.|
|Date:||Dec 26 17:03|
|After all, they opened the door. This is fair payback.
And I agree - go back and get the book - otherwise, you won't be justified in showering them with gifts.
|Subject:||LOL. I like that. I'm starting think I should read it and . . .|
|Date:||Dec 26 18:04|
|do a critique . . . Oh, never mind. Same old stuff,
looking at the website.
"Syndrome" huh? What crap.
|Subject:||They sure ruined Christmas for you!!!|
|Date:||Dec 26 18:30|
|I'm so sorry that for your wife, your marriage is based on whether or not you believe and practice mormonism. I hope that sometime in the future you find a lovely lady who will love and accept you for who you are.|
|Subject:||Re: Received 'Shaken Faith Syndrome' book for Xmas.|
|Date:||Dec 26 19:04|
|OTOH, you could read the book, make a list of the
issues it doesn't answer, or answers in a 'dip, dodge, dive' manner. Then go
ahead and send the family those questions telling them to go find the
answers since the book fails. Maybe you'll doing them a favor to actually do
some research instead of reading book reviews from other Mormon peers.
But then...that just might be a collosal waste of time.
Sorry they thought to treat you in such a shameful manner. You are family for crying out loud.
|Subject:||I decided to do some research on this book. (LINK)|
|Date:||Dec 26 20:04|
|After finding information online about this book, I
was left feeling very frustrated. The author clearly proves nothing. His
logic is so flawed on all points. I really tried to read it with an open
mind, but wanted to scream.
For those of you wanting a link to the book:
Also, the author gives a link to FAIR and they quote several people on this website and their posts. It was funny and interesting.
Here's the link to this:
I am sorry that you have to deal with this. Your family sounds very "Christ-like." ;)
|Subject:||Mike @$$...er, Ash came to RfM on a fishing trip a few months ago.|
|Date:||Dec 26 20:17|
|A few of us spotted him for a troll and he was
unceremoniously booted off the site. But he collected enough information to
fuel his "theories" about why people ditch the cult. Here's his entertaining
critique of one of my responses to one of his threads (before we figured out
what he was here for):
>>“FlattopSF” likewise responded:
>> No. Even if there was evidence for EVERYTHING, I would not. I am logic and science oriented, but there is another whole dimension of this that you are not presenting: Mor[m]onism is a murderous fascist cult. What amount of “factual evidence” can possibly justify that?
>>It would not matter to “FlattopSF” if all the evidence incontrovertibly pointed to the veracity of the Book of Mormon. Because he/she believes that the Church is a “murderous fascist cult,” none of that evidence would matter. “FlattopSF” would still reject belief in the prophetic abilities of Joseph Smith because “factual evidence” could not possibly justify what he/she sees as the atrocities supposedly committed by the Church.
Note his use of words and terms like "believes," "sees as," used to cast my statement in a different, invalid light. According to Mr. Ass...er, 'scuse me, Mr. Ash, nothing in the whole world matters except for the veracity of the BoM. He's apparently perfectly willing to overlook everything from Smith's conviction for fraud to Orrin Porter Rockwell to Mountain Meadows Massacre to YBU's church-sponsored torturing of gay men for thirty years in his eagerness to make us look like mental lightweights.
Whatever. I've been misquoted and mocked by fools before. I don't care if he wants to make me more famous!
|Subject:||Oh, so what Mike is saying is that if someone has real prophetic abilities, it justifies atrocities.|
|Date:||Dec 26 21:59|
Just because something is "true" doesn't mean it is godly. Just because something is "godly" or supernatural, doesn't mean it is moral or good.
If you've got an organization that commits real atrocities, and real injustices, I don't care if their "prophet" has a magic wand that turn lead into gold and gays into straights. I'm not gonna jump on that bandwagon.
I don't need magics or mystics. I don't require a stage show so that I can be a folloer. Apparently, Mr. Assh does.;)
|Subject:||His logic is flawed at so many levels.|
|Date:||Dec 26 22:20|
|It is like saying, "If I can prove that a man named Santa Clause lives at the North Pole would you then believe that he has elves, makes toys for the entire world, and travels down everyone's chimneys on Christmas Eve?" If you say that you do not believe this then he claims that you would never believe no matter the evidence.|
|Subject:||I'm so sorry, you're family really doesn't get it do they?|
|Date:||Dec 26 21:05|
|When I read stuff like this, I want to scream. It sounds like you need to limit your contact with them. Sadly, they probably thought they were doing a very big favor for you. Sick!|
|Date:||Dec 26 21:31|
|That's hilarious. It reads like a scene from a David Sedaris novel. You should really turn that into a short story.|
|Subject:||You did the only thing you could do.|
|Date:||Dec 26 22:14|
|Wow, what an ambush. I would have done the same thing you did. Leave the book, get my keys and walk. Sorry to say, but what a bunch of tools.|
|Subject:||Oh, he could have done so much more...|
|Date:||Dec 26 22:28|
|Shaken Up, in your short-story version, you must put a few different alternative endings. Perhaps one where you pull the whiskey flask from your jacket pocket, douse the book and set it aflame, waving it through the air in an angry rage right in front of their faces. Or perhaps one where you manage to replace all the pages with The Shining-esque repeats of "The work and the glory makes Jack a dull boy." Or maybe you just act out a heartfelt thanks, and then give them each their presents, also books. Things like, "You: On A Diet" for your overweight aunt, or "Living with Incontinence" for your father-in-law. Think National Lampoon. Oh yes. There could have been so much more done. Lol!|
|Subject:||I agree with Sheepshank, critique the book...|
|Date:||Dec 26 23:18|
|And give them your analysis, with references, and tell
them to do THEIR reading now. Of course you will want to include Joe's
marriage to 14 yr olds and to other mens wives.
I know it's a long shot, but your marriage is at stake, and you will know you left no peepstone unturned.
|Subject:||Ambushed on Christmas Eve (story #2)|
|Date:||Dec 26, 2008|
|I left the LDS Church a few years ago. The rest of my
family is still LDS. A couple of months ago my son married in the temple and
I of course was excluded. Since leaving the LDS Church I have joined another
On Christmas Eve my new daughter-in-law asked if she could go to the Christmas Eve service with me. I said yes. The service was wonderful and as we got into the car to go home she said, "The only reason I came to this service was so I could tell you how much we missed you at our wedding. We all want you to come back to the LDS Church so we can be an eternal family again."
I felt like I had just been spiritually raped. I assumed my daughter-in-law and son wanted to come just to show respect for my new found religion. Instead I then had to listen to her berating the history of my new church. She asked why I had left the Mormon Church and I told her it was because I no longer believed in the Book of Mormon. She asked me if I had ever read the Book of Mormon and prayed about it. I said about 30 times. She asked if I had read it and prayed about it since leaving the Mormon Church. I said no. She said she thought it was unfortunate I had left the LDS Church just because of a few doubts about the Book of Mormon. I then explained that archeology, DNA, etc. left me no doubt the Book of Mormon was false.
Anyway, I felt like it was pretty inappropriate to use the Christmas Eve service of my new church as a means of talking to me about the LDS Church. This girl got a 31 on the ACT so she's no dummy, but I sure have to wonder about her social intelligence.
|Subject:||Hate to say it,|
|Date:||Dec 26 07:09|
|but I guess we always have to suspect TBM motives.
Instead of talking about why you left, I'd tell her that the mormon church
makes members disingenuous and hard to trust. And tell her how sad that is
and that you'll pray for mormons with this mindset.
You've been hurt enough with having to miss that important wedding through no fault of your own.
I've noticed so many mormons harping on the importance of eternal families as they tear down the families they have. I'm so tire of it that I wouldn't want to be eternally around the family I was born into. If the CK was real, I would ask to have that family phone before visiting and keep the visitations short and focused on preagreed to topics.
|Subject:||It's always about them and their agenda, isn't it|
|Date:||Dec 26 07:30|
|I don't even know how to characterise that behaviour.
Rude, I suppose, or thoughtless or narcissistic.
I think you hit it when you mention her poor social skills, because how lame is it to say outright that she only went with you to tell you she wanted you to go back to that church. And then to go on and attack your new church was unconscionable. That seems a breach of manners.
It's too bad she violated your hospitality this way.
|Subject:||Dear DIL, your all-to-familiar tactics are part of the reason I left...n/t|
|Subject:||You only prayed about the book of mormon 30 times?|
|Date:||Dec 26 08:18|
|That's not how the algorithm works - you must pray
_until_ you receive _positive_ confirmation. If "Heavenly Father" doesn't
answer, obviously you are not sincere; if "Heavenly Father" denies the
truthfulness of the BOM, then you are talking with the Adversary; only when
HF answers in the affirmative can you stop your search for the "Truth".
It might take one, two, three hundred times, but eventually, you will derail your intellect, suppress your common-sense, lock your authentic self in a tiny tin box, and in desperation, a voice will well-up from your subconscious:
"OK, OK, if you stop making me read Smith's Encyclopedia of Gibberish, I'll release some feel-good endorphins every time you think about the BOM." And now you have a 'testimony'.
mormon "faith" is an exceptionally brittle phenomenon: in choosing to join another church, or no church, you have discomfited your son & DIL. An unbeliever in the family raises the every-present specter of cognitive dissonance.
|Subject:||That's just plain disrespectful of other's beliefs: Not only were you|
|Date:||Dec 26 08:41|
|ambushed, now her experience there will be unpolitely
compared to her version of her perfect indoctrinated religous life.
Despite the relatives, I attended my candle-light,communion service alone. :-)
Love and Hugs,
|Subject:||Re: Ambushed on Christmas Eve|
|Date:||Dec 26 08:49|
|What a horrible thing to do to you on Christmas Eve.
She should be ashamed of herself.
What sort of church do you attend now anyway?
|Subject:||Re: Ambushed on Christmas Eve|
|Date:||Dec 27 02:56|
|Subject:||Hey, Anon ---- I'm curious - are you the mom or the dad? n/t|
|Subject:||Call her on it. Start with asking if she doesn't still believe people can|
|Date:||Dec 26 12:20|
|worship how, where or what they may? Ask her how her
behavior backed up that claim. Don't let her try any lame whiny crap of any
kind - ask her the Q and gently but firmly insist she give you a straight
Then tell her that what she did was very rude and she should be ashamed of herself. Remind her that her Jesus would never ever stoop to lying and deceiving the way she just did.
Call her on her bad behavior and you will see a lot less of it. Deep down, she will respect your integrity even if she never admits it. Besides, pointing out how she went against her own claims to perpetrate that deceit against you will plant a seed...
|Subject:||They don't respect other religions.|
|Date:||Dec 26 12:31|
|In the many years I was an active Mormon, I rarely
ever met a Mormon who had any real interest in or "respect" for other
religions. They only go to church with others to pretend to show respect or
get on your good side, so they can spring "The Twoo Church" on you, either
to get non-members interested in it or try and "reconvert" former members
This is what was done to you. Now don't fall for this trick again.
|Subject:||She had to go to your service to tell you that?|
|Date:||Dec 26 12:59|
|Sorry, she's being less than honest here. If she was
looking for an opportunity to discuss this with you, all she needed to do
was something like help you with the dishes.
Instead she built a false sense of trust (just like the mishies are taught to do) and tried to manipulate you.
I was raised mormon and was specifically forbidden to learn about other religions, but doesn't nearly EVERY religion already believe you'll see your family again in Heaven? How do the mormons manage to convince people they're the only ones who value this?
|Subject:||Re: She had to go to your service to tell you that?|
|Date:||Dec 27 02:57|
|Because they are the only ones with special authority. She was shocked when I mentioned that Catholics accepted baptisms from other Trinitarian faiths and felt the Eastern Orthodox sacraments were perfectly valid.|
|Subject:||Now you know something about your DiL that it will take years for your son to learn.|
|Date:||Dec 26 13:13|
|I don't think I need to expand on that, do I?
Sorry you had to be the victim of an ignorant drive-by Mor[m]on-ism. That's pretty indicative of the level they stoop to. You might lay in a good supply of snappy/snotty retorts for the future, because I'm sure she'll continue in her attempts to insult your intelligence and integrity every chance she'll get.
|Subject:||I'll bet they discussed it exhaustively and planned it together, the son and his wife. n/t|
|Subject:||Re: Ambushed on Christmas Eve|
|Date:||Dec 26 15:00|
|I have a feeling that she would have been
uncomfortable in the liberal church I went to on Christmas Eve because that
church welcomes gays and lesbians, and even described the Christmas story as
being a myth.
If a TBM did that, I would have asked if they believed in the Articles of Faith, especially the 11th where it says something about allowing others to worship as they wish.
|Subject:||One of many possible comebacks . . .|
|Date:||Dec 26 17:46|
|Of course you could have replied, "I missed being at
your wedding. Why don't you join a decent church that doesn't make you
forbid your own parents from attending your wedding just because they don't
believe false things? That's what I did."
We have to stop handling these people with kid gloves when they are uber-rude like that. Just because it's their religion everybody thinks you can't put them in their place. When they fire the first shot you are fully justified in firing back.
12. Leaving the Fold
30. Self Discovery
37. Purpose of Life
52. Why I Visit Here
55. I am not alone
70. It is not Easy
128 What Church Now?
295 Mormon Bashing
|497. The Stages of Post-Mormonism and Brain Re-formatting||496. Uncomfortable Removing Garments|
|494. Are Ex-Mormons Bitter?||495. Movies for Ex-Mormons to Watch|
|489. Member of the Bishopric Describes his Last Day of Attending Church||532. Mormons Shun Those who Leave the Church - How to Deal with the Shunning|
|546. A Nice Exit Letter given to the local Bishop||549 Telling the Bishop You No Longer Believe|
|560. Two Examples of How Mormons Treat Family Members who Leave the Faith|
Recovery from Mormonism - The Mormon Church www.exmormon.org