|Subject:||Bishopric just showed up|
|Date:||Dec 27, 2008|
|Okay So last week or so I posted a thread about the
EPQ [Elders' quorom president] who showed up at my door and demanded to have our info and in all his
penishood glory informed me that I was not allowed to turn down church
visitors that it had to be my husband.
After that we decided as a family to start the resignation process . OF course that info has not trickled down to the local ward here that I want to point out we have NEVER attended.
I made it clear to all people who tried to contact us that we have a sick child and to not just show up at my house that we are not coming back and NOT interested. Today while my hubby is at the hospital with our daughter getting blood for her treatment the bishopricks show up. ALL THREE!!!!!!
Okay I was outside with my kids playing with their toys. I could not believe the arrogance that they seemed to get out of the car with- one guy had a note pad for hells sake like he was some sort of cop.
Bishop introduces himself and then the other two stooges. I was so pissed I just asked what they wanted. HE said and I quote" To be honest I want to know why you are not coming to church with your family.
I want to know why you as two return missionaries do not pay tithing. Why I see tea on your car bumper ( I was drinking a lipton green tea). I want to know why the primary, scouts, relief society, and young women's never get so much as a response to their emails.
I want to know why you are so secretive with your phone number. I want to know why your daughter is 14 and has never been interviewed or go to YW's" Well I just ignored him and there was this long silence that seemed to go on for hours but the one guy you can tell he must be a rookie started tying to talk to my youngest about his xmas presents.
I do not know if it is my daughter's illness that has made me so focused on how full of shit religion is or if it is just coming out of the cult that has done it but I just asked him when he looked at me waiting for an answer " DO you have a warrant?"
Can you quote me the state law that requires me to answer you?" ---again long silence.
He said "excuse me ?" I said no you are not excused - you don't even know me I have NEVER been to your ward.
I do not owe you jack shit of an excuse. I told him of our plan to resign and I let him know I felt he was totally disrespectful.
He said well here is my number have your husband call me. WHICH of course he won't.
Oh I am so upset at myself that I did not just lay into him.
I had so much I wanted to say because I knew I just knew that someone was going to show up.
I feel like screaming FOUL after the game!!! Has anyone ever felt like that before ? I guess the most important thing is that we are resigning and we have in GREAT detail explained to the kids old enough to understand why we left.
I even showed our 14 year old the temple video on you tube with the penalties. I do not want some smooth talking return missionary to ever sweet talk her with the "MAGIC " crap. I just bet he wants to interview our 14 year old. PERVERT!!! I want you to know that this is the first time we have EVER met these people. WTF is this seriously why are we so important to them.
They do not even know us and if they did certainly would not find us worthy to speak to.
I know it is pointless to try to make sense of them but honestly I don't get why our lack of attending in the few months we have lived here is so important. We are just one family. Never have been that active and only held one "important calling" ever between the two of us.
MAKES NO DAMN SENSE I TELL YA!
|Subject:||Astonishing story ...|
|Date:||Dec 27 21:17|
> Okay So last week or so I posted a thread about the EPQ who showed up at my door and demanded to have our info and in all his penishood glory informed me that I was not allowed to turn down church visitors, that it had to be my husband.
I really hope you replied, "But I sure AM allowed to call police and have you arrested for trespass, which I am doing right now".
|Subject:||You did good holding back in front of your kids.|
|Date:||Dec 27 17:33|
|You were furious and let me guess, didn't want your
kids to hear mom lay into those bishopricks with enough righteous outrage to
peel the paint right off their car!
They were HORRID to pull that crap on you!!! They are condescending arrogant penisholders who think their third leg makes them oh so speshul... not!!
If you want to have some fun, do you have a friend who's a lawyer? If so, you could ask your friend to print up a letter of your writing (and your friend's approving) on lawyer letterhead promising those nasty little bullies that there will be HELL to pay if they ever contact any of your family ever again!!
You could start writing up your resignation letter, spelling out how one of the big reasons you're so out of that cult, other than the fact it's all a pack of lies including the LIE about your alleged right to worship how, where or what you may, is the callous, condescending and ANTI-Christ arrogance shown towards you by the entire bishoprick!
Keep a small camera near the door and if they refuse to stop harassing you, start taking their pictures. Nothing like pure documentation of their crap to get them to back off at least a little bit.
|Subject:||Get a lawyer.|
|Date:||Dec 27 17:34|
|I suggest you consult one of those legal services that
will send out a letter for you for a nominal fee.
Let them know exactly what will happen if this harassment persists.
Also, contact the papers or write a letter to the editor.
Mormons hate bad publicity.
And don't be too hard on yourself. I think you handled yourself beautifully and I'm proud of you!
I'm sorry about your child. What is wrong, if you don't mind my asking?
|Subject:||Re: Get a lawyer.|
|Date:||Dec 27 17:37|
|She has leukemia but is getting better. Thank you for asking .|
|Subject:||I'm so sorry...|
|Date:||Dec 27 17:45|
|My friend had a child with Wilms (sic?) cancer and she
was also Jack Mormon. Hadn't been in years,
What people don't understand is that these children have immune systems that are absolutely SHOT to HELL. Visitors really can be deadly.
The hospital gave her a magnet to put on her door to let people know that unexpected visits weren't wanted and that people wouldn't be invited in. It helped her keep all those well meaning ward members at bay. She always had an excuse.
The LDS church really loves using times of vulnerability (such as a sick child) to get their feet in the door.
They really love to exploit the whole "forever family" thing.
I really hope you will get a lawyer and do a restraining order and do everything in your power to give these people as much bad press as possible. Bad press does wonders.
My thoughts are with your child. My friend's boy is cancer free (after a transplant and two rounds of chemo) and he's in the first grade and doing swell.
|Subject:||What a deep heart wrenching situation for you.|
|Date:||Dec 27 17:51|
|Glad your child is getting better.
How dare these men barge up bully you! They obviously think your first priority should be them and their cult needs. That's shameful when they don't know or care about you and your special family needs.
|Subject:||And I shutter to say this, but this is where Cheryl's advice can come in handy.|
|Date:||Dec 27 17:38|
|I don't advocate turning the hose on people who are
well meaning and have no mal intent.
But these guys are douche bags.
It seems like you live somewhere warm. (Staying outside and drinking a green tea? I'm jealous.)
If your hose isn't frozen solid right now, I recommend turning it on these guys next time they come back.
You can also tell them if they ever show up again that if they don't leave immediately you'll call the cops.
Get a restraining order. I'm TOTALLY serious.
Get a restraining order and name these three individuals on it.
Any time anyone does a background check on them, it will show up.
Again, I don't always advocate such drastic measures, but these guys are first class sexist douche bags.
|Subject:||Re: And I shutter to say this, but this is where Cheryl's advice can come in handy.|
|Date:||Dec 27 17:43|
|I just really don't get it ---I have been a member basically my whole life and I never have seen ANYONE act like this . Is this church normal like how SLC wants them to act or have I just run into a totally whacked out ward where everyone is hopped up on their food storage??|
|Subject:||I think they're whacked out.|
|Date:||Dec 27 17:46|
|I don't know many LDS or bishops who would advocate
this type of behavior.
Give 'em hell.
|Subject:||Total strangers showed up at your house & demeaned you in front of your children.|
|Date:||Dec 27 17:39|
|That is shameless! I'm pleased and proud of you for
speaking up to them.
You handled a bad situation very well. We can't be perfect when we're ambushed that way.
I'm sorry you have a sick child. That's such a worry and so draining for a parent.
Strangers from the local ward where I live harassed my for decades. My nevermo hubby was outraged. The rude unwanted contact strained our marriage and undermined our family time. It must be so much worse for you with the stress of an ill child!
On a brighter note, congratulations on your decision to resign. I'm very impressed that you're protecting your daughter by teaching her to avoid a destructive cult. The temple info is perfect for educating her.
I hope you'll let us know how this situation is resolved. Good luck and warm thoughts.
|Subject:||Re: bishoprick just showed up|
|Date:||Dec 27 17:43|
|Asking them if they had a warrant was the best reply.
It demonstrates to them that they have no rights and you know it. It must be irritating for one with "power and
authority" to come face to face with his impotence.
|Date:||Dec 27 17:45|
|F*CKING CULT!!!! This kind of shit happened to me, too
and I had TWO very sick special needs children, also. The ward leaders tried
to get to me through my oldest mentally disabled daughter. She did not have
the cognitive functioning to recognize the manipulation (much like your
God, this makes me so mad I could cry. Christmas weekend?! And you've NEVER been in their ward???!! What the FUCK are they thinking?!
I contacted a lawyer (brother of a regular poster on this board). And he told me to STAND UP TO THE BULLIES.
And I DID. I threatened legal action AND threatened to go to the media if their harassment didn't stop. The Bishop threatened to ex-communicate me for Apostacy. I told him he couldn't EX me because I QUIT!
We resigned as a family of 7 the summer of 2007.
I'm so pissed I can hardly see straight. DON'T TAKE THIS KIND OF ABUSE!!!!!!
Are you in Utah? Is that why they think they (total strangers!) can stand in YOUR driveway and YOUR front yard and demand to know the answers to your most personal life questions?
Please, please, please DO something and stop this insane abuse of people simply trying to live their lives while caring for a desperately ill child.
|Subject:||How is your family doing, Shannon?|
|Date:||Dec 27 17:48|
|I've been gone from these boards for a while. No
particular reason. But I have wondered often about your situation.
There was a Dateline a couple weeks back about Russian adoptions. Did you see it?
|Subject:||We're in ongoing litigation re: Sasha . . .|
|Date:||Dec 27 18:24|
|So I can't say anymore.
But LET ME TELL YOU . . . the *worst* of her mental problems were triggered by the Bishop's late Saturday night harassment of us two years ago. THE WORST.
*****THIS HAS TO STOP!!!!!*****
The church needs to be held accountable for its actions and the trauma caused to families by their divisive and inappropriate scare tactics.
|Subject:||Re: *****CULT!!!!!!***** (language)|
|Date:||Dec 27 17:55|
|NO not in Utah! Been there done that though:) But I could tell from the way he talked he was from Utah/Idaho. Seriously we are resigning and I will call a lawyer. I am not going to put up with it -life can be too short as I have seen at the cancer clinic to allow anyone to cause you guilt and shame. I used to for years feel all this guilt . Not anymore and neither does my husband .I think I will if they come back ask if they want some cocoa with peppermint schnapps:) If the tea bothered him that would give the bastard a stroke. I can't wait to be resigned .They should get our letter within the next few days .|
|Subject:||What a bunch of JERKS!!! I think you did a great job of kneecapping them!|
|Date:||Dec 27 17:53|
|I ABSOLUTELY LOVE LOVE LOVE that you demanded a
OK, I'm calmer now. The treatment you've received at the hands of these assholes is totally unacceptable. I completely agree with apostate that you might want to bring your local civil authorities into the matter: it begins a paper trail that you may need someday in case you actually have to press charges against someone. A restraining order tells them in no uncertain terms where you draw the line regarding their attitude. It's obvious they consider themselves above temporal laws, so I think it's a good idea to pop their little bubble good and hard and drop them back to earth.
Best wishes to you and your family. I hope your daughter recovers soon and completely.
|Subject:||I am praying to FSM that you call the police|
|Date:||Dec 27 18:26|
|I am praying to FSM that you call the police FIVE
MINUTES AGO and ask them to come to your house to fill out the papers ASAP.
This is harassment pure and simple and it is inexcusable.
It will follow these men and it will make them think twice before they try to harass and intimidate a woman this way again. A restraining order is not something that the stake president or church headquarters can protect them from. A restraining order will haunt them and it will send a clear message to church headquarters about better training for their "lay clergy".
And I'm 100% serious that you should call the papers. Call church headquarters. Call anyone you can think of and give these ass clowns hell.
|Subject:||Re: I am praying to FSM that you call the police|
|Date:||Dec 27 18:54|
|We live on the same street as a deputy for the local small town sheriff . I also happen to live DEEP in the bible belt so HA HA HA just the place to find someone to help us fight the mormons .When DH got back he walked down and talked to him and asked him if he could help scare off some local wildlife. He of course was more than happy to help and told him to tell me to call him on cell phone and he will show up to scare the crap out of them . I firmly believe that if my husband was home they would not talk to him like that-- it is because I am a woman that they do it . The deputy also has eaten at our house a ton and his wife and I are friends and so she knows what we came from and exactly why we left. Okay now I wish they would come back:):):) now but I bet it will be a while before they do .|
|Subject:||That's great! I'm glad you have DH and the LAW lining up on your side! 8^D n/t|
|Subject:||*grits teeth* Greasy, pustulent anuses, all three.|
|Date:||Dec 27 18:14|
|I'm sorry this happened. Did you have a garden hose handy? Cheryl might have some ideas about how to deal with those men.|
|Subject:||Take out a restraining order, how do you like me now?|
|Date:||Dec 27 18:19|
|Author:||They don't want me back|
|He'll find out fast a women can get one without her husband.|
|Subject:||Re: bishoprick just showed up|
|Date:||Dec 27 18:31|
|You were taken by surprise. Next time, have a plan and a short speech. If they come to your door, tell them you aren't interested and if they see you in the yard, go inside after telling them you don't want to talk. Have whatever you want to say read and say it briefly. If that doesn't work, you can get out the big guns when they come back. It takes at least two to have a conversation. If you won't talk or let them in, they will leave.|
|Subject:||Loved the warrant question.|
|Date:||Dec 27 18:34|
|FWIW, even if they had a warrant, you would be under
no obligation to answer. Just goes to show that Morgites often don't
understand even basic civil liberties.
It seems they should get a clue and realize that if the government doesn't get to barge in on people and pepper them with questions without their permission, maybe that same boundary should apply to them.
If you knew them, I'd call this just a case of bad manners and poor judgment on their part. That they felt they could pull this on a total stranger is way over the top.
|Subject:||Penishood guys, even if they are rogues, . . .|
|Date:||Dec 27 18:44|
|Are never, ever required to account for their
pathetic, rude behavior.
Sometimes members excuse an asshole PH leader with the rationalization that there are a few bad apples in every barrel. Bullshit. The barrel is bad, and the bad asses (apples?) are never required to apologize, make amends, admit their shitty behavior - ever.
It's a goddamned cult. Way to go asking him if he had a warrant!!! Get a restraining order. Play offense instead of defense. Rock them back on their scummy heels.
|Subject:||we had the primary presidency pull something on us and I had the bishop harassing me last spring by|
|Date:||Dec 27 19:09|
|e-mail because I requested no VTs. I even had ACTIVE
MORMONS telling me to get a restraining order. They don't GET that they have
no authority over us. I told the bishop in no uncertain terms that I didn't
recognize his so-called authority even if I am not resigned. I know it is
because he is close to my daughter--and he has to save us. He talked about
how he remembers when I used to go to church, blah, blah, blah, and I
reminded him of him mowing the lawn on Sundays when I walked by his house to
go to church.
My therapist helped me sort it out and put a stop to it.
They seem to KNOW they can get away with this stuff because we have been indoctrinated--and no matter how far away I get from the church, I still have issues with church authorites. My exmo therapist says I have PTSD from dealing with them.
So--MY HEART GOES OUT TO YOU. What ARROGANCE! This is ABUSE.
"Regular" mormons don't realize this kind of harassment goes on (and when they hear about it, don't believe it).
I'm glad to hear your daughter is doing better. Kick you when you're down--that is what mormonism is all about.
|Subject:||So PTSD is why we exmos react the way we do to invading mormons?|
|Date:||Dec 27 19:17|
|Wowm that fits. Thanks!
I didn't respect their authority of think they had any power, but for quite a long time, I did think it was my job to try to impress them with how clean cut, reasonable and long suffering exmormons can be. So that's probably a kind of PTSD too. Right?
|Subject:||Yes, Cheryl. It is. All of it fits with PTSD. Lovely, no? n/t|
|Subject:||P.S. I meant to add . . .|
|Date:||Dec 27 19:34|
|I get it, too. PTSD symptoms: anxiety, flashbacks,
uncontrolled anger response, overwhelming fear, nightmares.
Doesn't happen often (maybe once or twice a year now - and I never went on a mission! worse for those guys!), but when it does . . . I struggle.
|Subject:||Re: P.S. I meant to add . . .|
|Date:||Dec 27 19:57|
|It does make you stressed ! I mean it just brings up all those feelings. Thanks for EVERYONE for the moral support:) REALLY I mean that .My first thought when something like that happens is to run to my computer and post . It is not like we could go to family and share our frustration. It helps to release it and move on a bit. Tonight we will now finish the night with homemade Strawberry Margaritas and wish you all lived near to share ;). HAHAHA too bad they don't come back later tonight .I also shared the sign idea with my husband that SuzieQ#1 suggested last time they came which talked about "this house is under no obligation to avoid all loud laughter etc etc etc". then sign my new name ...which by the way is MARY EMMA !!! He said he would print one up tonight with both our new names.Oh and did I mention that all of them HAD to be barely 30!|
|Subject:||This age group is the new Nazi Mo trained generation. my Son in law , age 27, is just like them. nt|
|Subject:||Re: P.S. I meant to add . . . I hope you can watch the Mormons when they read the sign.!~That's|
|Date:||Dec 27 21:22|
|most of the fun! At the time, I had the kind of front
door that had blinds I could adjust and see them and they couldn't see me!
I laugh just thinking about what a couple of "elders" did when they read it! It was the funniest thing I ever saw. They just stood there, stunned! Said something to each other. One walked away then went back and read it again! Then they stopped again before leaving the property. hehe
|Subject:||About that sign|
|Date:||Dec 27 21:29|
|You've already had two unpleasant encounters with
mormon functionaries - things have escalated way beyond the "loud laughter"
"No Mormons" would seem an appropriate message at this juncture - but I'm not sure they would respect even that. (Though a picture of your house with _that_ sign out front might make an amusing item in your local newspaper.)
|Subject:||How desperate is the cult getting????!!!!!! nt|
|Subject:||This is not the LDS Church that I knew! This behavior is way off the charts.|
|Date:||Dec 27 20:06|
|Extremely inappropriate. I have had my share of
experiences with out-of-order, inappropriate behavior from leaders! But to
go this far? Very strange.
Even believing hubby thought their questioning of strangers was awful!
"Do you have a warrant" is one of the best comebacks I have ever read! It's a classic! I chuckled for hours over that one! I can see the poor guys face! Time to stop tgeir invasive nonsense!!
So sorry your daughter is ill. My best wishes for a speedy recovery!
|Subject:||This is the LDS Church I've known for many years.|
|Date:||Dec 27 21:24|
|Their worst side is showing more and more as they become more desperate.|
|Subject:||Re: This is the LDS Church I've known for many years.|
|Date:||Dec 27 22:17|
|This is the church I knew, too. This story does not
surprise me a bit.
That is how they operated with me.
|Subject:||Someday you'll be amused rather than angry...|
|Date:||Dec 27 20:14|
|Yes, the goal of recovery is to not be angry every
time an idiot pulls something like this. I now have fun with them.
Somehow they forget that I was once one of them, and know the inside games.
Yes, when the missionaries ask "Is there anything we can do to help?", I get them splitting firewood, then I leave for town to run errands. They get tired of that really quick.
Ask the morons exactly what they're going to like about the celestial kingdom? Is it the endless meetings? The temple ceremonies? Home teaching? Ask if they wouldn't rather be with their families or fishing than out bugging people. Ask if they're looking forward to polygamy, and if their wives will allow it.
Ask them how their statistics are going? What percent of the ward is active? Who are they trying to reclaim? Are you on their reactivation list? What is their strategy to reclaim you? Are they in the friendshipping stage? Which is the next step in their technique? Do they get to put their visit on a report? Is there anything you can do to help their statistics? Maybe tell them to just put you down as active without actually having to go to church if that will help them.
Ask them if they have ever thought of exercising some free agency and taking a break from church duties for awhile. God surely would allow that if he's a good guy. Ask if they are afraid their wife would leave them if they tried that. Ask if their extended families would disown them. Suggest that maybe they don't really believe, but are just acting out of fear of family rejection.
Ask if the stake president is harassing them? How is their tithing collection going?
On and on.... the possibilities are endless, and is alot of fun. You'll get them so twisted up, they won't want to come back, and you'll keep your blood pressure down.
I only see a church member every couple years, without having to fight them. My family doesn't question me much, as I bring up ideas they don't want to consider - all without anger.
|Subject:||Oh, I read your story, and............|
|Date:||Dec 27 21:37|
|Lemme tell ya, my teeth they were itchin to sink into
The nerve of them guys!
Whats funny is that guys like them guys, they can be soooo very obnoxious and aggressive to someone like youse but I betcha they are real weenies and wimps with the PEE-hood holders that are like above them and outrank them, you know like yes sir no sir please don't look at me like that sir!
Its quite clear ta me that you took em off-guard, they was expectin ya to just cower, whimper, roll over and submit (so to speak, it's a dog analogy).
You done good.
But DO let me know if I can bite some ankles for ya, K?
Reggie The StalkerDog™
|Subject:||Desperate *Gestapo* tactics!! I wish you all the best for your family.|
|Date:||Dec 27 22:03|
|If your police friend doesn't work, a lawyer WILL.
What a bunch of arrogant assh*oles!!
This harassment just proves TSCC is really just dropping off the map and in severe panick mode.
Good luck to you!!!
|Subject:||I was just going to say this, but you beat me to it, Awake Now, but those bullies|
|Date:||Dec 28 03:39|
|Author:||Mother Who Knows|
|would never have treated you like that if your husband
had been there.
>"I firmly believe that if my husband was home they would not talk to him like that-- it is because I am a woman that they do it ."
You are absolutely correct.
Being a single divorced woman for years, I was treated rudely, and so were my children. Duh--I was unsure and frightened of being on my own, and the Mormons played on that fear--but I never realized that the Mormons themselves were the very people I really needed to fear!
Yes, they do kick you when you are down!
One of my best moments in Mormonism was before I resigned, and a couple of Mormon Priesthood leaders came to my door. They always come in two's or three's. I knew these men, well, I knew their wives better. These men were real pompous asses, in the real world. I am more educated and make more money than either of these idiots. One of them started threatening me with the wrath of God, because I wasn't going to the temple, and my large, very athletic sons heard him, and came and told them to leave immediately, and that no one is allowed to insult their mother that way.
I have lived long enough to have my SONS become MEN. Maybe that protection gave me the extra courage to stand up for myself and officially resign from the cult.
My biggest son was sweeping our driveway one Saturday last summer, when he was approached by the Bishop. My son told the Bishop that this is private property, and he wanted to sweep his driveway in peace, without being accosted by solicitors. The Bishop said he was not a solicitor, and my son said, "You are ultimately after our tithing money. Trying to get money from someone is soliciting."
All my children--and I--are normally very friendly, polite people, but the Mormons won't pay attention to your wishes unless you are very assertive, even rude.
Thank you for this thread. I'm going to have an official-looking sign made for our door, as we are still being harassed, and the neighbors know my sons are moving out. We live in a Utah Mormon neighborhood.
Seriously, I'm thinking of something like, "No solicitors. No Mormons." or "No solicitors or cults."
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