Subject: As a Mormon did you think/feel/know you could never measure up
Date: Nov 29, 2009
Author: SusieQ#1

or that there was something wrong with you?
I know I did as a convert.

Is this a current theme with members?


Subject: Re: As a Mormon did you think/feel/know you could never measure up
Date: Nov 29 18:54
Author: as "worthy" as anyone else now!

Absolutely, that "I'm a piece of garbage" theme permeated every area of my life. Mormonism, if you take it seriously, demands the impossible....perfection, or at least close enough to perfection that it's conceivable you'll get there someday. I knew I was far from perfect and that I would always be far from perfect. Never being perfect = no Celestial Kingdom = your loved ones ripped from your arms for all eternity; it's all a downward spiral psychologically.

The day I decided I was going to stop trying to be perfect and leave the church so that I didn't get that crazy notion back in my head that being perfect was possible (or even desirable!) was a day I'd never, ever felt so free!


Subject: I always did
Date: Nov 29 19:36
Author: LivingALie
Mail Address:  

I felt like that all the time I was in the Mormon church. Especially when I was on a mission. I always felt like I wasn't spiritual enough, like I didn't know enough, like I wasn't trying hard enough. When people try to leave TBMS try to reinforce this. They try to paint it as if the person leaving isn't good enough.


Subject: Re: As a Mormon did you think/feel/know you could never measure up
Date: Nov 30 14:52
Author: Rastacat

Perfecting the Saints. Fun Gospel Essentials topic, has those cute little sketching of happy young women singing, tending to each other in the pre existance. Ha ha ha.


Subject: My old journal reads like a
Date: Nov 29 19:46
Author: ken

life story of a guy who felt like a worm because he could not do anything right (enough).

Looking back it is easy to see that I was programmed to feel unworthy and guilty about everything I did or did not do perfectly. I was a walking schizophrenic. I was outwardly happy and optimistic, but full of agonizing shame inside.


Subject: Definitely
Date: Nov 29 21:36

In fact, it is something I'm still struggling with, to a lessening extent. Some day I hope to get over these feelings in all areas of my life, but so far it's just out of one or two. I am aware now though, and so I think I will get there in time.


Subject: Re: As a Mormon did you think/feel/know you could never measure up
Date: Nov 29 21:43
Author: mysticma

As a member I always felt inferior. I made the mistake of repenting to a bishop who couldn't keep the news to himself and for the rest of my time in the cult that one "sin" was held over my head, which just added to the feelings of imperfection.

Only upon setting myself free from the cult did I learn how normal I was and I have learned to embrass my human errors and hopefully learn from the mistakes. But I no longer walk around feeling bad for being me and/or human.


Subject: I would tell my leaders that I was unable to attend the temple...
Date: Nov 30 00:07
Author: koolman2

I would tell my leaders that I was unable to attend the temple because I was not worthy. There's that big no-no 'M' word again! I always felt like crap because of it and felt that I didn't have enough faith to stop; so yes.


Subject: I did exactly the same thing.
Date: Nov 30 13:44
Author: Bro.R.H.

In fact, it ended up having a major impact on my leaving the church. My best friend told me he had the same "problem" but simply lied to the bishop about it to get a recommend. It was then that I started to figure out that the whole "power of discernment" claim was BS. After that it was a lot easier to question other extraordinary claims made by TSCC [this so called church].


Subject: Re: I did exactly the same thing.
Date: Nov 30 14:59
Author: Rastacat

It's funny how the guardians of the temple let me in after the less than perfect secular life I was living. I even went when I was a smoker of ciggerates, and was a occasional drinker and gasp I ate meat as a regular part of a healthy diet. (why if one didn't eat meat regularly, then important organs such as brain cells couldn't be maintained. Well vegans eat their Tofu protiens, but you get what I'm saying. That ingesting protiens, in this case traditionally is every important to the World of Warcraft (or WoW).

Hell I even enjoyed the beauties of people, and I was still able to go into the temple. Nothing changed, and I discerned that the old guardians of the temple had no such magical powers.


Subject: Absolutely . . . because I wasn't perfect . . .
Date: Nov 30 01:23
Author: imaworkinonit

and I wasn't spiritual enough to have a testimony. Believe me, I tried to get one, but since I didn't HAVE one, I figured that I had failed in some way to have enough faith, or my imperfections were the cause. I would become incredibly guilty over the smallest mistakes: being late to church, doing my visiting teaching too close to the end of the month, losing my temper at the kids occasionally, not having a perfect house, etc.

I let the little things eat away at my confidence and happiness.

The guilt was ridiculous, and just about drove my husband crazy. It was something he mocked regularly, much to my irritation, because I thought guilt would help me change for the better, but he thought it was useless and destructive (he was a closet exmo at the time).

I think guilt is what keeps people down in the church. If YOU aren't good enough (and nobody is), then everything is YOUR fault: your problems, your lack of spirituality, your depression, etc.


Subject: Oh man, I hear ya on that one
Date: Nov 30 15:30
Author: NormaRae

Same thing. I could claim all I wanted that I had a testimony. I could "bear it until I got one," but still I knew deep inside that I didn't truly "know" the church was true. But since EVERYONE else I knew had felt that burning bosom, it must just be me. There was really something wrong with me. My lack of faith was my own fault. The fact that I hated the temple when everyone else (claimed to) love it meant I was an inferior being. I wasn't perfect or anywhere near close to it like many of the mormon women I knew. There was no way I could ever measure up.

Funny thing is that today, when I think of the three mormon women I was close to and who I thought were much closer to perfection than I was, two of them are now also divorced and one is clinically crazy (but all are still TBM).

The fact that I was FINALLY able to see my way through the fog and come out in the clear boosted my self-esteem so much. Just realizing that I had a huge one up on those women who I thought were so much better than me was the thruster that boosted me into my current (MUCH happier) life.


Subject: Definitely, as I could never be perfect
Date: Nov 30 01:53
Author: Fedelm

I was a female convert from a completely nevermo family who refused to hand over any family history information. I also used my brain way too much, and didn't learn to keep sweet and let my ex-husband deal with church members. I wasn't even close to being perfect, and to make matters worse, I was delaying the thought of children until I had finished my education and had a career started to save money.


Subject: The Mormon Ideal of Perfection is So Very Imperfect
Date: Nov 30 02:18
Author: Steve Lowther

At first I felt I just couldn't measure up.

Then I helped my own mental health by realizing it was a goal to be taken step by step.

Now I realize that many of the concepts are ridiculous and originated in times when we were less enlightened. I am referring to in particular about sexual mores. So many unnecessary hang ups! So many unnecessary prohibitions! At one time it may have been necessary to put pressure on the populace to control inopportune births that are less than ideal for the new borne. However, now that is less of an issue with modern technology.

Mormonism reflects antiquated ideals. That is not to say there are not many important ideals it embraces. However, because it is antiquated, the portions of the outmoded ideals can promote mental illness with pathological guilt.

Guilt, like pain, is a warning. If we suffer pain without an actual underlying pathology, it can ruin lives. In those cases, pain like guilt, becomes the pathology itself because of a malfunction in the neurological system.


Subject: At the time, I didn't think that I felt that way. But in retrospect, I did.
Date: Nov 30 03:08
Author: apostate

At the time, I would never have admitted it because the gosple was "perfect" so admitting that the "perfect" gospel caused me to feel like shit about myself would have been criticizing the gospel so I had that disconnect.
But looking back, Yes- I felt very inadequate. I questioned every decision and every possible wrong choice and I felt like just one bad move would set me on a path to nowhere.
I never really believed I had to be PERFECT, just trying my hardest to strive toward perfection.
But that's a difficult concept to grasp. Is a person EVER really trying their hardest? I think that's a trite phrase that never really applies. None of us ever really try our hardest because there's always something out there we could be doing that we're not doing.
So even though I understood that perfection wasn't possible, I felt down on myself for not trying my hardest to strive toward perfection, which I knew was impossible anyway.
I always wondered just how many mistakes a person was allowed before they were shipped off to hell.


Subject: It was the reason.....
Date: Nov 30 03:12
Author: Exmormon Robertson

I refused to become an Elder. I looked honestly at all the rules and regulations along with their teacher to endure to the end and said there was no way I could do that. So I didn't even try.


Subject: I've been taught since childhood that I would never measure up
Date: Nov 30 05:38
Author: confused

And even when I was in my ultraTBM phase, I always knew that I would never fully measure up and I guess I held my family to impossible standards too. Being active and "faithful" to the church caused a lot of stress and resentment in my family. They resented the new rules being imposed, and I resented that.

It's amazing how much better life is out from underneath the church.


Subject: TSCC makes a big deal out of ...
Date: Nov 30 05:49
Author: dwindler

leadership positions, which can literally decide a persons fate in mormon life, and it can affect both men and women. Think of how the tbms worship the most high brethren. And to think how I fell for all this BS. SICK!


Subject: Re: As a Mormon did you think/feel/know you could never measure up
Date: Nov 30 11:33
Author: unworthy

That is the main reason I left mormonism. All the time I was growing up in the small town,,I was told by ward members how worthless I was. "You know you're not......." is all I heard. Most of the places I worked was controlled by mormons. They deserved the promotions because they had served their missions. The list goes on.


Subject: Definitely
Date: Nov 30 11:50
Author: Laszlo

Because Mormonism equates material success with righteousness, when things weren't going well and finances were tight, my first thoughts were that I had done something to offend the Lord.

I was out of Mormonism by that point, but the thinking is still so awfully hard to leave behind. It was just a sort of an automatic response, something which I know is totally false.


Subject: What I read from BIC former members, I'm eternally grateful I was a young woman when I converted!
Date: Nov 30 14:03
Author: SusieQ#1

I had a completely different background growing up. I was taught that "where there was a will there was a way" and other positive instruction.
We often felt inferior because we lived on the "wrong side of the tracks" so to speak, and didn't have the money to participate in a lot of the school events.

Interestingly, my self respect and self esteem grew as I participated in the LDS Church and the "callings" I was given.
They could not beat me down, even though some tried.

The confirmation I could trust myself came when I realized that Joseph Smith Jr told that whopper and got away with it. I knew there was something wrong with that picture all along, but didn't have the info to act on it.

In my stage of life, as a senior female, I am long past giving anyone permission to make me feel inferior! Nor can they offend me. I am much too spunky!

I don't give a rats patootie if someone doesn't like me or is rude, etc.. Most of the women I know in my age group are the same way and are proud of it!

Leaving the LDS Church, I got rid of those invasive bullies that would try to fix me when there was nothing to fix!


Subject: I'll always struggle with not being able to measure up
Date: Nov 30 14:28
Author: cl2

in some areas of my life--and I certainly felt it in mormonism and I was "abandoned" when I wasn't righteous enough to save my gay ex. That was a HUGE load to put on someone--I questioned every move I made.

BUT I do know mormons who, for the most part, aren't bothered by this. Some of the leaders--a few bishops I've had.

I have a cousin who was "my" bishop at one time. He is so FULL of himself and how special he is. His father was the same way (though he wasn't active mormon until in his 50s). This uncle became a SP.

What I loved to see was when this cousin put his mother in a nursing home and she was FURIOUS. She called and told my dad how she would never trust this son again and hated him. This man--who always lorded over everyone how special he is--came to my dad's house and basically begged my dad to believe him--that he wasn't the creep his mom was making him out to me. I loved it. He's back to his old ways though . . .


Subject: For what its worth, cl2 ...
Date: Nov 30 15:02
Author: Timothy

You're well beyond the "measuring-up" stage in my eyes. It takes a special brand of courage to endure and survive what you've been through.

Never discount yourself. You're a bad mother ... (shut yo mouth)... But I'm just talkin' 'bout cl2 ... (we can dig it!).

Thanks for being you!



Subject: As a coloured Mormon yes.
Date: Nov 30 14:40
Author: Rastacat

McConkie, claimed that I was disobedient, lazy, a traitor, a coward for being a tan skinned Asian, and that my people in China deserved to live in a flood ridden (the natural melting of the Himalayan mountains and Typhoons had nothing to do with this of course lol), famine ridden country.

Then some missionary youths were handing out the "You were Generals in the great army in heaven" that I was some angelic knight.

so essentially I was a super sexy Superhero Ab master, angelic knight, but I was those cowardly ones that are the butt of the jokes of cartoons. (you know those comic relief super heroes like Kato from Green Hornet or the laid back surf dude from that McConaughay movie where he's looking for treasure).

But definitely not a peter priesthood. And I was shunned for my lack of intelligence, confidence, and education. A Mormon boy even made a joke saying that "He's older than I am and I make more money than he does". his brother was quroum leader>


Subject: Re: As a Mormon did you think/feel/know you could never measure up
Date: Nov 30 14:57
Author: rutabaga

I get very tired of the notion that anything I do is never good enough.

There is recognition of a job done or calling fulfilled and then comes; wait for it; "But".

There is always something that could have been done better. Always the unreachable, unrealistic goal.

What kept me going is some of the relationships I have with some of the guys in EQ. On assorted scout backpack trips, some of us in EQ have survived literally life-threatening episodes. They are tired war stories now, but the memories really tied us together.

When the SP wanted to make me an HP, I resisted. I was having fun in EQ with my friends. When I told SP, he had a fit. Red face, veins popping, he screamed "You're not here to have friends, you're here to build the church." (SusieQ#1, you know who I'm talking about) My first day in HP after being ordained, I made what I thought was a funny remark. "I don't want to belong to any group that would have me as a member"(Groucho Marx) SP had a red-faced fit all over again.

So here I am, snoozin' with the guys in HP group listening to the bishop tell us we got 98% HT, "But" try harder next month. After a while you can only laugh.


Subject: OH?Another story about that certain SP? And do I have stories about the new one!
Date: Nov 30 20:18
Author: SusieQ#1

Ya, you're not here to be friends! But when they want to talk to you it's" We're friends, right?
ICK. Give me a break.

Laugh is right! Just can't take the silliness seriously! And you know who I mean!


Subject: All the time
Date: Nov 30 20:46
Author: CosmoMcK

That's the game they play-- set impossible standards then tell you you're a loser if you don't meet them.


Subject: There is only so much scripture reading and prayer that can fix anything! And that is all they have
Date: Nov 30 20:58
Author: SusieQ#1

to offer. No matter how you feel, no matter what the problem is, no matter if you are out of a job, have a serious illness, it's all because you are A. being tested, or B. sinned.
Geez. It's a no win situation.


Subject: Re: There is only so much scripture reading and prayer that can fix anything! And that is all they have
Date: Nov 30 21:04
Author: CosmoMcK

True that! When I left Mormonism, I didn't leave Christianity, but I made sure that I don't belong to an oppressive sect.

When I was a Mormon and sought guidance from a bishop, I didn't get any practical solutions. It was like you said: read the scriptures and pray about it. Now, if I go to my pastor, he has resources he can direct me to for a practical solution. Huge difference. Church may not be everybody's cup of Earl Gray, but it's refreshing to find something different.


Subject: Re: There is only so much scripture reading and prayer that can fix anything! And that is all they have
Date: Nov 30 21:07
Author: SusieQ#1

CosmoMcK wrote:
> True that! When I left Mormonism, I didn't leave Christianity, but I made sure that I don't belong to an oppressive sect.

> When I was a Mormon and sought guidance from a bishop, I didn't get any practical solutions. It was like you said: read the scriptures and pray about it. Now, if I go to my pastor, he has resources he can direct me to for a practical solution. Huge difference. Church may not be everybody's cup of Earl Gray, but it's refreshing to find something different.

Yes. Huge difference when the pastor/minister/ has some counseling training, or a degree.

Mormons go to the father of the ward - bishop over all kinds of things. It's a shame the LDS doesn't have some kind of training required for bishops. They really, really need it.
Right now, they are just ward administrators. Not qualified for anything else.


Subject: Re: As a Mormon did you think/feel/know you could never measure up - I countered that with the
Date: Nov 30 21:19
Author: SusieQ#1

statement: Never believe something about yourself that is not true.

Also, there is no obligation to believe negative thoughts!

Then there is that nice phrase: I am a child of God.
If that is true, I am perfect the way I am! :-)


Subject: 1 Nephi 3:7 - if you can't do EVERYTHING you're told to do - it's your own fault!


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