LDS Church: Tithing talk by a Mormon Apostle

[Admin note: In December of each year, Mormons are required to meet with their local leader, usually the Bishop, to declare that they paid 10% of their income to the Mormon church. This annual meeting is known as "tithing settlement". There is no financial disclosure from the Mormon church as to how these billions of dollars it receives annually are spent or invested.]

Posted by: Anonymous
Date: June 03, 2011 10:04AM
The latest from the brethren regarding tithing...

Posted by: JoD3:360
Date: June 03, 2011 10:51AM
Next years blessings dependent upon this years tithing settlement?

"Tithing settlement is months in the future. I pray that you and your family will begin now to plan and prepare to qualify for the blessings that God pours out on all those who can declare to Him that they are full-tithe payers."

So, does God look up your file to see if you have enough credit built up to get a prayer answered?

And an untruth:
The tithe payer helps Him relieve hunger and suffering in His own way through His servants.
Ummm, aren't those needs met by Fast Offerings and Humanitarian Aid donations?

Posted by: Anonymous
Date: June 03, 2011 11:09AM
Re: Next years blessings dependant upon this years tithing settlement?

You're correct - or at least that's what we've been told...Fast Offerings are used for feeding the poor/hungry.

With no transparency regarding the amount and use of tithing funds, I have become increasingly leery of these types of pleas.

Posted by: Anonymous
Date: June 03, 2011 02:19PM
Re: The year after our biggest tithing contribution ever . . .

I've paid a full tithe for over 30 years and it goes without saying that the continued lack of a "return on investment" with no transparency and a [multi-] billion-dollar mall have pushed me into the 'seriously questioning' column.

Posted by: Queen of Denial
Date: June 03, 2011 01:52PM
I was one of those duped souls

I thought at least some of my money was going to help the poor and the sick.

Silly, Queen of Denial. You were buying real estate and building malls. Sigh.

Posted by: anonski22
Date: June 03, 2011 11:38AM
Re: The latest from the brethren regarding tithing...

These fools still go about trying to equate 10% of $1.00, that a 7 yr old may have, to 10% of a standard middle class family of 4 income, who are barely able to put something aside for retirement or their kid's college funds.

Posted by: AngelCowgirl
Date: June 03, 2011 10:09AM
Re: The latest from the brethren regarding tithing...

Yuk! But I think you're right, revenues are probably down. Of course, that's likely because the unemployment rate is up! But the stupid Morg doesn't care -- our children can starve and we can lose the house as long as we keep payin' em.

It has been decades since I've read any of that "faith-promoting" propaganda. How sad for TBMs.

Posted by: halfbreed
Date: June 03, 2011 10:42AM
Re: The latest from the brethren regarding tithing...

And again the ridicule from the pulpit. I am sick of it. He doesn't even quote scripture and he doesn't want anyone to actually know what the Bible, D&C and BOA actually say about tithing. I have read them over and over in years gone by and I never felt guilty on not paying on my gross. Now I attend the yearly business meeting where I attend and I can see exactly what came in what went out and where it went. Non religious organizations (Elks, Rotary, etc.) I assume do the same.
Actually if I was to pay 10% on my yearly increase I overpaid.

Posted by: nonmo
Date: June 03, 2011 11:18AM
Re: Next years blessings dependant upon this years tithing settlement?

JoD3:360 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> "Tithing settlement is months in the future. I
> pray that you and your family will begin now to
> plan and prepare to qualify for the blessings that
> God pours out on all those who can declare to Him
> that they are full-tithe payers."
>

"QUALIFY"?????? Like be pre-approved based off of your tithing amount?? That's just disgusting to come from church leader no less..

To "qualify" for God's love...you HONOR God and live the 10 commandments...nondenominatioanlly to boot....

Posted by: guynoirprivateeye
Date: June 03, 2011 11:24AM
Re: The latest from the brethren regarding tithing...

Then, they have the gall to coerce the rank-and-file into the Mo Version of BLACKMAIL.

In the first paragraph we read "He wants to give us eternal life, the greatest of all His gifts", and then: "To receive the gift of living with Him forever in families in the celestial kingdom, we must be able to live the laws of that kingdom." So He wants to give us a gift, but to get that gift, we must obey his commandments. so what kind of gift is that? I thought a gift is a gift, ´something we give to somebody, as a sign of our love, appreciation, we might have other purposes, but ideally, a gift is done without expecting anything in exchange, or not?! and more so if a gift comes from God, I would think. But it is not so, so I guess the morg has a different concept of "gift".

Posted by: dapperdan
Date: June 03, 2011 12:43PM
Re: The latest from the brethren regarding tithing...

Hahahaha! Give us more money for the mall and our other investments. Of course we are gonna tell you that we use it for compassionate purposes. Plus, we don't let anyone see our books so how is anyone gonna know we didn't use the money to help the poor.

Tell your masters to open their damn books. It makes the ¢hurch look like it has something to hide (which I am sure it does). Plus, don't you want to know how much of your hard-earned money went toward building the mall? I for one want to know how much "money to help the poor" went into prop 8.

P.S. The fact that you send away your money and don't even ask, or care, where it is going should be raising red flags in your mind. But I guess the ¢hurch has done a good job convincing you that the little red flags of common sense are just the temptations of Satan. Disgusting.

Posted by: Misfit
Date: June 03, 2011 12:55PM
Re: The latest from the brethren regarding tithing...

Hey, at least Eyring took the time to settle a long-standing argument on whether to pay on net or gross income:

See? Its settled. All you have to do is read the Ensign. It doesn't matter what the CHI says or what D&C 119 says. If its in the Ensign, and a GA said it, it must be twoo.

Posted by: notion
Date: June 03, 2011 01:21PM
Re: The latest from the brethren regarding tithing...

"There are at least three ways that paying a full tithe in this life prepares us to feel what we need to feel to receive the gift of eternal life."

So, it prepares us to feel what we need to feel? WTF? Only prepares us? That's pretty non-committal when compared to the heavens opened and richess above our ability to receive ... Maybe too many people realized giving money away is not going to make you rich :)

Posted by: badseed
Date: June 03, 2011 01:26PM
I'm surprised at how many TBMs think tithing money is used to help the poor.

I don't know if Church leaders are purposely sending this message out or if this guys comments are just an error. Wouldn't surprise me though if the Bros. were leaking out that message in order to up tithing payment. I certainly felt better about humanitarian contributions than I did about paying for growing the corporation.

Posted by: anona
Date: June 03, 2011 01:36PM
Re: The latest from the brethren regarding tithing...

>
> P.S. The fact that you send away your money and
> don't even ask, or care, where it is going should
> be raising red flags in your mind. But I guess
> the ¢church has done a good job convincing you
> that the little red flags of common sense are just
> the temptations of Satan. Disgusting.
------

The fact that your are called up for an interview and audited on your charitable contributions should be suspect as well. After all it's your salvation and we(Mo) carry the keys to it. Not JC and his gift of the atonement but the Corporation of the Presiding Bishopric and their financial arm will determine your salvation.

The fact that is it so much more than Tithing is a major red flag. Tithing should cover it all... but no - the morg asks for more and isn't ashamed to do it.

Tithing ( in bold type)
Fast offering ( in bold type)
General Missionary
ward missionary
Book of Mormon
Humanitarian aid
Temple Const
Perpetual Education
Other
Priesthood restoration site fund

Posted by: Flecher
Date: June 03, 2011 01:41PM
Re: The latest from the brethren regarding tithing...

If giving money is so good for the soul, why don't the brethren hand a little out?

Posted by: Good Luck
Date: June 03, 2011 01:49PM
Re: The latest from the brethren regarding tithing...

I love this part "First, when we pay our tithes to the Church, our Heavenly Father pours out blessings upon us. Anyone who has consistently paid a full tithe knows that is true. The blessings are sometimes spiritual and sometimes temporal. They are given in the Lord’s time and according to what He knows is best for us." After paying 10% for over 10 yr's my DH had a heart attack and he left the church.

Posted by: brigantia
Date: June 03, 2011 01:49PM
10% gross?! Why don't they understand - it was 10% of increase....

and if I recall correctly (without consulting the Bible on my bookshelf), the biblical commandment was applied in the Middle East amongst farming folks, and nomadic peoples. They were commanded to sell all the grain/livestock that they could for their own sustenance and give 10% of whatever was left over to feed the poor.

We did, in our Church school, learn at least that at a very young age. I was always at odds with the mormon interpretation of that commandment, which doesn't apply to us today anyway.

Posted by: jessica
Date: June 03, 2011 01:53PM
Re: The latest from the brethren regarding tithing...

For argument's sake let's say it is all our income, or gross. Let's see how that breaks down:
40,000 a year (I like round numbers)
-12,000 taxes 30%
-4,000 tithing 10%
total take home:
$24,000; to pay for housing, food, clothing, etc for a family
That's $2000 a month; if a modest house payment plus utilities is $1200 a month, you have $800 left to feed your family.

Let's go the other route, tithing on net:
40,000 a year
-12,000 taxes
$28,000 take home
-2800 tithing
25200 total after taxes/tithing

Roughly $1200 more in your pocket each year or $100 extra dollars each month. That $100 can make a big difference!

This is all assuming you have no other bills, no emergencies, no school debt. But let's assume you do have a medical bill from an accident that is costing you $300 each month, because well I didn't include health insurance. And let's take $200 out a month for one car payment.

In the first scenario, this leaves you with $300 a month to feed your family. Second scenario, you have $400. An average family of four pays between $300-$500 for groceries a month. All you have left is money for food, that's it. But if you're paying on gross, you may actually need to charge some food because you are short.

But if you don't pay tithing at all in both scenarios, you have $633 leftover each month--after food that's $333-$133 a month you can actually save! You won't be buying food with a credit card! It will take time but you can get ahead on those bills and actually pay extra on them! Or you can watch the church build a mall, take away people's rights and keep praying for help.

Posted by: imaworkinonit
Date: June 03, 2011 01:58PM
The year after our biggest tithing contribution ever . . .

Looking back, I'm kind of embarrassed that I actually bought into that. It's so silly to believe an organization that says "Give us money. We represent God, who is invisible. And He'll bless you if you give to US generously. (And BTW, we won't tell you what we're doing with the money").

Posted by: vivo
Date: June 03, 2011 02:42PM
Eyring's plea in layman's terms.

God wants to give us things. We have to jump through hoops to get them. One hoop is, every last one of us has to give 10% of everything we get to god.
If we are boneheaded enough to do that, we'll believe and jump through any other more ridiculous hoops god comes up with.

First. When we pay, arbitrary good things may or may not happen. If they do, it proves it's from god and we should all be glad he doesn't ask for a whole lot more than 10% for them.

Second. When we pay, we can demand more from god. We've got leverage. He'll deliver. Quit worrying he won't. Be positive.

Third. When we pay, love is in the air. Isn't it wonderful! Isn't it marvelous! Stop whining.

Your money you gave is used for real estate development, advertising to get more people to pay just like you, and sometimes to even help people. It's secret who gets what so don't ask for any details.

To get your things from god today, hurry and begin paying now. So our finance experts can audit your private records in December.

Posted by: SusieQ#1
Date: June 03, 2011 02:44PM
Re: The latest from the brethren regarding tithing... --- This is old news. Seems to me they hit tithing hard

at least once at every conference, or at least once a year in every Ward. I've heard dozens of talks on the blessings of tithing. Probably gave one or two myself.

Posted by: jpt
Date: June 03, 2011 02:59PM
Re: The latest from the brethren regarding tithing...

You may or may not get blessings, which may or may not be soon, maybe later, or maybe in the next life. But, it is very explicit that your part be 10%.

Oh... and that feel good, developing faith, and gaining spiritual confidence only applies to giving to the church! If you decide to give to other churches instead, or other humanitarian or "Christian" efforts, you won't be blessed, and your faith will falter. You can't get a recommend and attend weddings or go to the celestial kingdom.

Posted by: Boomer
Date: June 03, 2011 09:22PM
Re: The latest from the brethren regarding tithing...

My husband and I married when we were _______. We were living in a small town in ____________. After we joined the church no one would talk to us. My husband was in school studying __________ and I worked in a __________ store until our ___________ child was born.
One month we were out of money by the ____________ week. I didn't know what to do. We had __________ children then. I couldn't stand to see them hungry. That night my husband brought home ___________ dollars he'd made washing cars. We both wanted to go to Wendy's, but we didn't. Instead, we took 10% of the money and put it in an envelope. We were able to go to the grocery, where we bought a box of pasta, a loaf of bread, and _____________. When we went to bed we were still hungry, but we were satisfied knowing we had followed the Word of the Lord.
The next day my _____________ brought a basket of _________; she had more than she needed and thought we would like some. The very same afternoon my husband washed the car of a prominent Mafia leader and got a great tip. We knew these blessings came from following the Law of Tithing and our testimonies were strengthened. I say this in the name of Jesus Christ, amen.

Posted by: ExMormonRon
Date: June 03, 2011 11:30AM
Re: The latest from the brethren regarding tithing...

What an asshat! "Hey, you kids, you need to tithe that paper route, the veggie stand and the window washing jobs you had. Don't care if you only earned $2.00 for doing it. Pay up and pay now or the Lard will charcoal you! AND, you need to tithe that christmas/birthday/Easter money you got too, you little bastards! I don't care if the gift money was already tithed!".

Posted by: think4u
Date: June 03, 2011 09:45PM
Re: The latest from the brethren regarding tithing...

The very most sickening thing about this article is in the first paragraph, right there up front, that if you pay your tithing you can live with God and your families forever. ( The opposite being obviously implied) SCARE TACTICS!

Good thing TBM's never or at least rarely read the ensign, and I am assuming this because in 1993, july issue, you can easily find it,( just google Russell Nelson ensign 1993 stone in hat- it is half or 2/3 of way through article- short paragraph) Russell Nelson wrote an article in which there was one paragraph devoted to the stone in hat translation method. NO ONE seemed to have seen it, I certainly did not, because in about 05 when Bushman's book came out and mentioned it, it was all the talk. I just don't think they, for the most part, ever read the ensign.
I actually read it about half of the time.
It is ALWAYS about the money, and they always want more.

I do see the day coming back when we were asked to pay 5% of our gross income toward ward budget in addition to 10% tithing. And we did it, had nothing, were always dirt poor. They also had temple budget assessments asked of for each family back in our ward. This was in the mid to late 70's, here in our stake at least , in Sandy, Utah. I hope they start up the law of consecration , I would LOVE to hear what my kids would say about that one!

Please don't pay tithing in your questioning period! It will just add to the regret of good money after bad.

Posted by: Anonymous
Date: June 03, 2011 10:56PM
Re: The year after our biggest tithing contribution ever . . .

I appreciate the suggestion. Thus far this year, I have impounded all of my tithing (well, nearly all - 97%+) in a separate savings account where it just sits.

My wife, whom I love but who doesn't question as I do, has expressed concern, but is sticking by me figuring I'll get over this. I'm not so sure, frankly. I have, however, said that she is still a 'full tithe payer' as long as she pays on anything she earns. My failure to pay should not reflect negatively on her....

I have thought lately over how Tithing really operates as a regressive taxation system, where the rich in the Church do not feel the pinch as much as the working class does when paying Tithing. I am concerned that the present Tithing system prepares the poor in the Church more to live the Law of Consecration than the poor rich members in the Church.  For example, a rich doctor clears $400K a year after taxes, while another family clears $50K a year. Let’s assume both families are rebels and pay on their net. The doctor pays $40K a year in Tithing while the working class pays $5K a year. The rich doctor still has $360K to cover his living expenses and enjoy the luxuries of life, while the working family now only has $45K to live upon. The rich man’s family could still goes on his ski trips to Jackson Hole, several trips to Lake Powell with his house boat, and not to mention a few choice cruises or trips to Europe a year, and still have a hefty amount of money for retirement. The working class family, however, is just trying to get by and just maybe has a few thousand to invest in retirement. How is such a system both just and equitable?

The irony continues with the general authorities in the Church. Many GA’s, including Uchtdorft, Hales, Bednar, and Nelson, live by the luxurious Eagle Gate Golf Course in North Salt Lake. I understand that G.A.’s are not required to pay Tithing on their ‘Living allowance.’ Plus, they get a new Avalon every few years, which I assume all of the gas, maintenance, and insurance is covered by the Church! And I bet they get the best medical care without any co-payments, deductibles, or any annual out-of-pocket expenses. Their houses are quite comfortable, especially when you consider that most of them only have two people who live in such places. From their rameumptom views, they can see from a distance how the commoners live, including that poor trailer park in Woods Cross, UT that is located just a mile from those dirty oil refineries. These poor members have been blessed to live in such a shack! For behold, they are blessed for they can see from a distance how the elite in the Church live! What a blessing! Yet, the G.A.s still demand that all members must pay 10 percent on all of their income, including those poor trailer park people, so that can get blessings and be ready to live the Law of Consecration.

I have one suggestion to the G.A.’s: sell your pretentious homes, give most of your money to the poor, and buy a humble shack in the Rose Park of Salt Lake City to show members by example of how to prepare to live the Law of Consecration. Since I assume they never will do that, I can safely assume the Law of Consecration is just a mere academic exercise. Rich members of the Church will likely never submit to without serious modifications to that Law. Better yet, wait until the next life when you cannot take the riches with you to live the Law fully. If Tithing as currently constituted in the Church is not a double-standard and a regressive taxation system, I am not sure what else could in God's green earth could qualify.

Just a few points from a commoner

2. Faked Priesthood Blessings?	18. Anxiety in Mormonism
20. Legalism and Guilt	49. Help, I am in Shock
47. The Final Straw	60. Mormon Urban Legends
61. Mormons say, "I know"	63. Were you active Mormons?
65. Mormon Food	69. Unconditional Love
71. Testimony Meetings	72. Wedding Invitations + Receptions
78. Mormon 30+ Years	81. Mormons and Boundaries
82. Busted at the Market	83. Loving Church more than Kids
87. Pay Up you Lowly Peasants	90. Grandson of the Prophet
91. Garment 'Police'	92. Exploitation of Older Mormons
98. Caste System	104 Loss of Individual Identity
105 Bishop Dad and Boy Scouts	107 Fast and Testimony Meeting
109 Women - 2nd Class Members	110 Lost without the Gospel
122 Why do they keep holding on?	123 Mormon Leaders define emotions
125 California Mormons	129 Negative Impact on Children
131 Mormons don't Wear Crosses	133 The Sacred Flow Chart
134 Sabbath - A day of Rest for Women?	136 Tithing - 10% of Gross?
137 Seminary Have a Large Family	143 Feeling Guilty Visiting Here (exmormon.org)
147 Mormon Church and Free Speech	161 Sunday's Youth Message
156 Girls Camp "Faith Promoting" Activity	167 Funny Testimony Meetings
174 Silly or Annoying Church Callings	201 Cut Back on Leisure Time!
202 Mormon Grandparents	204 Satan Stories
207 Obsession with Numbers	210 Where are the Michelangelo's?
218 Life in Polygamy - 2003	219 Loss of Passion
220 Mormon Ignorance of Judaism	223 Confessing to the Bishop
225 Ridiculed at Sacrament Meeting	226 A Bishop's Blessing
228 Fanatical Things We Did	229 Embarrassing Testimonies
231 Mormon Myths on the Fly	235 Fear of Losing a Testimony
236 Manipulative Mormon Women	237 .General Authority Visit to the Stake.
247 Mormons - Guilt and Shame	249 Mormon Funerals
254 Sacrament Prayer Repeated	260 Father-in-law: Me in 20 Years?
270 Forever Family® versus Reality	271 Never Happy as a Mormon
273 Was Sunday a Day of Rest?	277 Life Inside General Conference
278 High School Seminary	280 Remember Evils of Card Playing?
281 Drinking Coca-Cola is a Sin?	283 'Court of Love' - Experiences
284 Amazing Letter in The Ensign	286 What is Mormon Culture?
290 Life is Better in Zion	296 A Mormon Spouse Writes
300 Ward Boundaries	307 Mormons Feel Superior to Others
311 Limiting Family Size	313 Tithing Never Brought My Family Blessings
316 Breaking the Will of Members	318 Stories of former Church Custodians
319 A Mormon Writes: "My Wife Wants to Leave the Church"	324 Selling Our One Year Supply of Food
326 Bishops Asking Sexual Questions	332 March 2004 Ensign on Tithing
334 A Mormon Father's, who is a Bishop, Cruelty	338 A Personal Look at Polygamy
347 Central Control and Ward Budgets	349 No Testimony? What is Wrong with You?
350 Types of Mormon Testimonies	357 Changing History to Bolster Faith
356 Utah Leads the Nation in Bankruptcies	355 Mormons' Lives are Micro-Managed
367 Breaking Down Personal Boundaries	369 Mormon Bishops are Untrained
383 Never Turn Down a Church Calling	403 Jesus Needs $1 Billion for a Shopping Mall (now $3.0 billion)
422 Rape in Utah above National Average - Mormonism connection	439 Mormon Belief Interferes with Rational Decision Making
443 The Grape Juice Myth	456 Mormons Unaware Joseph Smith Used a Stone in a Hat
464 Mormonism is an All or Nothing Religion	461 How Stake Presidents and Bishops are Called
493. Mormon Mother Wishes Her Son had Died Instead of Leaving the Church	486. Women who Know - Relief Society President Speaks at General Conference
485. Mormon Church Keeps its Members in Isolation	484. Is Relief Society Relevant? Women Role Models?
499. Utah now Leads the United States in Depression	521. More on Utah Leads the Nation in Depression
536. Experiences on Being Single in the Mormon Church	547. A Visit to Sacrament Meeting after Resigning 5 Yrs Ago
543. Striving for Perfection	551 Church's method of determining truth: prayer.
558. Concise Summary of Mormon Life - Male Perspective	561. An Inactive Mormon Mother Accosted by the Bishopric
562. Logical Fallacies Commonly Employed by Mormons	574. Bishop Attempts to give a Lame Calling to Reactivate a Member
578. Fear of Phone Calls after being a Mormon Leader	589. Can a Shy Person Succeed as a Mormon?
593. Tales of Mormon Ward Clerks	596. Is the Goal of Becoming a God Selfish?
599. Mormontimes (2010): Pay No Attention to the Man Behind the Curtain	600. Mormontimes (2010): Declining Baptisms - not a Problem
602. Pay Your Tithing or No Priesthood for You - Ensign Feb. 2010	604. Mormonism Creates Severe Hardship for Many Members
608. We Mormons are not Weird and We're not Doing Weird Things	612. Ward Council Meetings are Filled with Gossip
609. Mormons Don't Know Why Joseph Smith was in Jail	618. A Family Church? Sons and Daughters of Bishops Speak Out
627. How do Molly Mormons Cope with All the Kids?	633. Do Shy People Have a Place in the Mormon Church?
634. Jesus Wants Me to be a Janitor for a Multi-Billion Dollar Corporation	647. Mormon Apostle Article on Tithing - June 2011 Ensign